INFO-VAX Fri, 28 Nov 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 635 Contents: RE: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Re: Apache FtpServer Re: Apache FtpServer Re: Autogen params report... Re: forwarding email to a distribution list Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: LAT BARCODE PRINTER Re: LAT BARCODE PRINTER Re: OT: Former VMS guy need small free database Re: OT: Former VMS guy need small free database Re: OT: Former VMS guy need small free database search list, surprising error, inconsistent behavior Re: search list, surprising error, inconsistent behavior Re: search list, surprising error, inconsistent behavior sell wow gold sell wow gold Re: sell wow gold Re: Wget ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 14:46:15 -0500 From: "Peter Weaver" Subject: RE: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Message-ID: <785F3669209F422595C771D0DFC21BB4@CHARONLAP> > ... > Peter.. if you find yourself in the Boston area in the near future, > then come pick up mine, and I'll bid on an other one. > ... Thanks for the offer; Boston is a bit too far away for an afternoon trip, maybe someone in Western New York might respond though. Peter Weaver www.weaverconsulting.ca www.openvmsvirtualization.com www.vaxvirtualization.com www.alphavirtualization.com Winner of the 2007 OpenVMS.org Readers' Choice Award for System Management/Performance ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 14:28:57 -0800 (PST) From: Pierre Subject: Re: Apache FtpServer Message-ID: <4a99e0af-183f-4543-a28b-c8f13d16d150@33g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> On Nov 16, 3:58=A0am, Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: > Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: [ java stuff ] > Arne thanks Arne, I'll give your code a try and will post the results of my testings :) Pierre. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 22:15:08 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Apache FtpServer Message-ID: <492f6232$0$90265$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Pierre wrote: > On Nov 16, 3:58 am, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> Arne Vajhøj wrote: > [ java stuff ] > thanks Arne, I'll give your code a try and will post the results of my > testings :) If you run into problems, then send me an email. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 22:50:49 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: Autogen params report... Message-ID: Jur van der Burg wrote: > Write to the the audit server or jobctl mailbox perhaps? > VMS can set the process in this state. > Lots of possibilities. > > Jur. > Well, we found it... :-) Someone disconnected a PLC system (in a manufacturing line) from the term-server (serial connected), and some VMS process (which was also expected to read the mailbox) was stuck while trying to communcate with the PLC... This PLC have been "up" since 2001-sometimes, so this little "problem" has not been discovered before. We will re-write the apps to not hang when/if the communication to the PLC drops. The "MBOX" tool I installed from the freeware8 dist was a great help. It clearly showed which mailbox was "full" and also which processes that had sent the messages. Highly recomended ! Jan-Erik. > Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote, On 26-11-2008 19:57: >> Hi. >> Today we had som problem with a number >> of processes going into RWMBX state. >> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 21:09:37 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: forwarding email to a distribution list Message-ID: <492f52d6$0$90270$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > What am I doing wrong? From a priviledged account: > > MAIL> set forward/user=test-user @TEST.DIS > > didn't work. (TEST.DIS is located in TCPIP$SMTP_COMMON or, rather, in > the second directory in the search list which is my definition of this > logical (and works fine for other things which use TCPIP$SMTP_COMMON, > such as SMTP.CONFIG).) Specifying the path explicitly (i.e. the second > directory in the search list) didn't work either. > > What am I missing? If my memory is correct (but I was wrong last time I tried to remember back in time), then this was explicit forbidden by MAIL and is the reason why DELIVER was invented. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 12:03:40 -0800 (PST) From: johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: On Nov 27, 12:33=A0pm, Joseph Huber wrote: > Michael Kraemer wrote: > > In article , Mark Wickens > > writes: > > >> I have done bits and pieces of MC68K which I also used in earlier days= - > >> in this case I don't consider it so 'old' as there still microprocesso= rs > >> being sold for new development in the Freescale Coldfire product range= . > > > I think even the original 68K chips (68000 through 68060) are still > > being made and sold. At least they weren't EOLed last time I checked, > > about half a year ago. > > >> Admittedly the vast majority of code will be written in C, but that's > >> not to say that dropping down to assembler is not the right thing to d= o > >> on occassion. "Best language for the job" always prevails. > > > Assembly on 68K is almost like C. > > Eh ? Does this (one of the few things I wrote in m68K assembly language), > look like C ? > > Bus_Trap_Handle: =A0 > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 move.l =A0d0,Bus_Trap_Mode(a6) =A0 =A0;handling mode of b= us-/address-traps > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 move.l =A0d1,Bus_Trap_Access_Mode(a6) ;mode of bus-access= =A0 =A0 =A0 > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 movem.l d1/a0-a1,-(a7) > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 clr.l =A0 d0 > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 movea.l d0,a0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 lea =A0 =A0 exc_table(pc),a1 =A0 =A0 =A0 > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 os9 =A0 =A0 F$STrap =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 bcc.b =A0 ih99 > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 move.l =A0d1,errno(a6) =A0 > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 move.l =A0#-1,d0 > ih99 =A0 =A0movem.l (a7)+,d1/a0-a1 > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 rts =A0 > > It looks more like VAX (Makro-)assembler ! > > -- > Joseph Huber,http://www.huber-joseph.de It is an allegedly well known fact that much of C was inspired by PDP11 assembly, opcodes, and addressing modes, and at first glance it seems plausible. However, I'm not sure I believe it as (a) I think I've read an interview (with Dennis Ritchie?, who may perhaps be considered definitive) which claims there's no truth to it, though I can't remember where I read it (b) you can subtract two bytes in C and you can't (trivially) subtract bytes on a PDP11, even though most other popular PDP11 instructions had byte variants where applicable. More details on the PDP11 Programmers Card at e.g. http://www.jfc.org.uk/documents/scandoc.php?page=3D2&maxpage=3D10%0A&dir=3D= pdp11%2Fpdp11. I too am surprised to see Motorola 68K assembler described as C-like. It could perhaps have been, if they wanted to, given that C arrived a few years before M68K. But afaict it wasn't. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 15:43:05 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: <001ae389$0$12296$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk wrote: > It is an allegedly well known fact that much of C was inspired by > PDP11 assembly, opcodes, and addressing modes, and at first glance it > seems plausible. Kerningham-Ritchie (in the C book) confirm that C was first written on a PDP-11 running Unix. The availability of certain assembler operators in the PDP-11 may have made it easy to implement certain operations and thus made it into early release of C. For instance, if there is a bit shift assembler operator, it makes it easy to implement the C bitshift operator. However, the functions that are native to C are pretty basic and would exist (or easily implemented) in any architecture. If the architecture doesn't have a bitshift operator, you then generate a few instructions that set the high order bit to 0, multiply the number by 2 and you have your shift left. C was meant to be platform independant. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 20:43:51 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk writes: >On Nov 27, 12:33=A0pm, Joseph Huber wrote: >It is an allegedly well known fact that much of C was inspired by >PDP11 assembly, opcodes, and addressing modes, and at first glance it >seems plausible. However, I'm not sure I believe it as (a) I think >I've read an interview (with Dennis Ritchie?, who may perhaps be >considered definitive) which claims there's no truth to it, though I >can't remember where I read it (b) you can subtract two bytes in C and >you can't (trivially) subtract bytes on a PDP11, even though most >other popular PDP11 instructions had byte variants where applicable. I would disregard b). While it's true there is such a restriction in the PDP-11 instruction set, someone writing a compiler would see no reason to have to live by the PDP-11's instruction limitations, they know people will want to subtract bytes (chars) sometimes, and make the compiler generate code equivalent to byte subtraction, even if it can't be one instruction. >I too am surprised to see Motorola 68K assembler described as C-like. >It could perhaps have been, if they wanted to, given that C arrived a >few years before M68K. But afaict it wasn't. I've heard that the 68K instruction set was inspired by the PDP-11's instruction set. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 15:45:51 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: JF Mezei wrote: > johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk wrote: > >> It is an allegedly well known fact that much of C was inspired by >> PDP11 assembly, opcodes, and addressing modes, and at first glance it >> seems plausible. > > > Kerningham-Ritchie (in the C book) confirm that C was first written on a > PDP-11 running Unix. Who????????????? Perhaps you meant Kernighan & Ritchie? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 14:44:26 -0800 (PST) From: johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: <455441cc-44ec-480c-b3b7-02a00d9ec145@v4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> On Nov 27, 8:43=A0pm, moro...@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote: > johnwalla...@yahoo.co.uk writes: > >On Nov 27, 12:33=3DA0pm, Joseph Huber wrote= : > >It is an allegedly well known fact that much of C was inspired by > >PDP11 assembly, opcodes, and addressing modes, and at first glance it > >seems plausible. However, I'm not sure I believe it as (a) I think > >I've read an interview (with Dennis Ritchie?, who may perhaps be > >considered definitive) which claims there's no truth to it, though I > >can't remember where I read it (b) you can subtract two bytes in C and > >you can't (trivially) subtract bytes on a PDP11, even though most > >other popular PDP11 instructions had byte variants where applicable. > > I would disregard b). =A0While it's true there is such a restriction > in the PDP-11 instruction set, someone writing a compiler would see no > reason to have to live by the PDP-11's instruction limitations, they know > people will want to subtract bytes (chars) sometimes, and make the > compiler generate code equivalent to byte subtraction, even if it can't > be one instruction. > > >I too am surprised to see Motorola 68K assembler described as C-like. > >It could perhaps have been, if they wanted to, given that C arrived a > >few years before M68K. But afaict it wasn't. > > I've heard that the 68K instruction set was inspired by the PDP-11's > instruction set. . The reference to PDP11 missing ADDB/SUBB instructions wasn't meant to be taken entirely seriously. Sorry. Maybe there aren't as many PDP11 folks around here as I hoped... I was reasonably familiar with both PDP11 and M68K (and 6800 and 6809 and 9900 and Z8000 and even NS16000 at one time, not to mention various Intel things including iAPX432) and there's not really much commonality between PDP instruction set and addressing modes and M68K instruction modes. One thing the PDP11 and 68K did both have in common was that IO didn't have its own specific instructions or its own address space, unlike some others which had specific IO instructions and a separate IO address space. Now if you'd said the National Semiconductor NS16000 had been inspired by VAX with the additional design goals of modernisation, removal of cruft, and simple support for ROMable code, I'd have agreed with that. But very few folks ever heard of the NS16000 and it sank without trace. Well, HP eventually named an Integrity server after it, but... Meanwhile, back to Mr Ritchie. I can't find the interview I thought I read, but just as JF says, the frontmatter in K+R says "C was originally designed for and implemented on the UNIX operating system on the DEC PDP-11, by Dennis Ritchie." (see http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0131103709/ref=3Dsib_dp_pt#reader-link). Ritchie's own in-depth story of the development of the C programming language provides a lot more background and doesn't really say C was originally designed for PDP11, though PDP11 seems to have been the first implementation: http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/chist.html Times change though. I'm just in the process of writing my first device driver for an ARM (IXP425) machine (running Linux). I currently have absolutely no idea what the instruction set looks like, and ideally it'll stay that way, but... ------------------------------ Date: 27 Nov 2008 23:26:13 GMT From: "Bob Eager" Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: <176uZD2KcidF-pn2-zSoxvSJxPRqB@rikki.tavi.co.uk> On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 22:44:26 UTC, johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk wrote: > The reference to PDP11 missing ADDB/SUBB instructions wasn't meant to > be taken entirely seriously. Sorry. Maybe there aren't as many PDP11 > folks around here as I hoped... I programmed PDP-11 stuff for years, and never actually noticed the lack of a byte subtract...! Never needed it I guess... I may have been too ashamed to say so earlier... > I was reasonably familiar with both PDP11 and M68K (and 6800 and 6809 > and 9900 and Z8000 and even NS16000 at one time, not to mention > various Intel things including iAPX432) and there's not really much > commonality between PDP instruction set and addressing modes and M68K > instruction modes. One thing the PDP11 and 68K did both have in common > was that IO didn't have its own specific instructions or its own > address space, unlike some others which had specific IO instructions > and a separate IO address space. And (originally) the memory alignment trap..! > Meanwhile, back to Mr Ritchie. I can't find the interview I thought I > read, but just as JF says, the frontmatter in K+R says "C was > originally designed for and implemented on the UNIX operating system > on the DEC PDP-11, by Dennis Ritchie." (see > http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0131103709/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link). Or just pull it off the shelf, in my case! -- Bob Eager Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 19:19:33 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: <492f390b$0$90274$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: > Mark Wickens wrote: >> The other train of thought out of this was to try and tease out of some >> of you any development environments or languages that have struck you as >> elegant, pleasant and productive. I know of Ruby, Python seems pretty >> good,... > > I've used Python on VMS some. > > It's a nice package with a lot of "modules" pre-installed > read-to-be-used. Just the other day I wrote a short Python > script (20-30 lines of Python code) that reads out a Rdb > table and creates an PDF document with data from the > table tabulated both as text and in Code39. It uses the > builtin Rdb interface and a module called "ReportLab" > to create the PDF. Python is a nice language. Good combination of powerful and easy to write. It is recommendable. I have never used it on VMS though. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 19:22:01 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: <492f399f$0$90274$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > Glen Herrmannsfeldt wrote: >> Tim E. Sneddon wrote: >> (snip) >> >>> Anyone who *willingly* chooses Itanium assembly to write anything >>> should immediately get themselves to a doctor! >> >> VAX is probably one of the easier assembly languages to learn. >> >> PDP-11 and S/360 also aren't so bad. >> >> I haven't tried Itanium yet, and I don't know that I want to, >> but I will soon have one to try it on. > > Assembler language programming is just about dead. The only time it's > really necessary is when you are bootstrapping a new hardware platform. > Even device drivers are now written in C. > > It's just too damned expensive to program in assembler! As a general programming languages - yes. You can still need it for using some special instructions not available in HLL. Oh - and it is still a good thing to learn at least one assembler to get a good understanding of how code executes. (and obviously compiler backend writers need to understand the instruction set very well) Arne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 00:22:12 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: <00A8344D.E9F8A12E@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article , IanMiller writes: >On Nov 27, 4:11=A0pm, JF Mezei wrote: >> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> >>Making transfer vectors for sharable images ? Are there now tools to >> >>make those without Macro ? >> >> > Yeah, it's called the LINKER OPTION file. >> >> Do you have an example of a way to build a transfer vector with the linke= >r ? >> >> I was under the impression that the linker simply built the table of >> entry points which was not garanteed to be the same if you changed your >> code around. So your chareable image would work with >> LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL since this was dynamic linking to a shareable >> image, but not necessarily with conventional shareable images that have >> fixed links resolved at link time, not at run time. > > >See the fine manual - its different on itanium What's different? -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 00:54:11 GMT From: Roger Ivie Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: On 2008-11-27, johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk wrote: > Now if you'd said the National > Semiconductor NS16000 had been inspired by VAX with the additional > design goals of modernisation, removal of cruft, and simple support > for ROMable code, I'd have agreed with that. Pfft. I've never understood how people can say that when the NS16000 doesn't even have the PC as a general-purpose register. -- roger ivie rivie@ridgenet.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 19:53:28 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: Arne Vajhøj wrote: > Richard B. Gilbert wrote: >> Glen Herrmannsfeldt wrote: >>> Tim E. Sneddon wrote: >>> (snip) >>> >>>> Anyone who *willingly* chooses Itanium assembly to write anything >>>> should immediately get themselves to a doctor! >>> >>> VAX is probably one of the easier assembly languages to learn. >>> >>> PDP-11 and S/360 also aren't so bad. >>> >>> I haven't tried Itanium yet, and I don't know that I want to, >>> but I will soon have one to try it on. >> >> Assembler language programming is just about dead. The only time it's >> really necessary is when you are bootstrapping a new hardware >> platform. Even device drivers are now written in C. >> >> It's just too damned expensive to program in assembler! > > As a general programming languages - yes. > > You can still need it for using some special instructions > not available in HLL. > > Oh - and it is still a good thing to learn at least one > assembler to get a good understanding of how code executes. > > (and obviously compiler backend writers need to understand > the instruction set very well) > > Arne I think I have used nine different assembler languages in my career. SDS-930, IBM System/360, IBM System/7, H-P 21MXE, PDP-8, PDP-11, VAX, 80x86 and Z80 for sure. For some of that hardware, assembler was the ONLY choice! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 20:27:16 -0700 From: Glen Herrmannsfeldt Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: JF Mezei wrote: > johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk wrote: >>It is an allegedly well known fact that much of C was inspired by >>PDP11 assembly, opcodes, and addressing modes, and at first glance it >>seems plausible. > Kerningham-Ritchie (in the C book) confirm that C was first > written on a PDP-11 running Unix. Yes, but C descended from BCPL and B, which were older than the PDP-11. > The availability of certain assembler operators in the PDP-11 may have > made it easy to implement certain operations and thus made it into early > release of C. For instance, if there is a bit shift assembler operator, > it makes it easy to implement the C bitshift operator. Bitshift has been around for a while, in both hardware and other high-level languages (though not always part of the language standard). It is the increment and decrement operators that are sometimes connected to the PDP-11. The story seems to be that there is no causal connection from the PDP-11 to C operators. > However, the functions that are native to C are pretty basic and would > exist (or easily implemented) in any architecture. If the architecture > doesn't have a bitshift operator, you then generate a few instructions > that set the high order bit to 0, multiply the number by 2 and you have > your shift left. Bitshift operators go pretty far back in the history of binary computers. The autoincrement and autodecrement address modes of the PDP-11 were less common. (Though I believe that there were earlier machines with autoincrement memory locations.) > C was meant to be platform independant. Yes. Among others, note that using the shift operators with the shift amount greater than or equal to the word length is undefined. Also, the rounding when dividing negative numbers. -- glen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 11:31:00 -0800 (PST) From: johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: LAT BARCODE PRINTER Message-ID: <1a68c2c5-a4b0-4479-9ef5-a114ac58713c@l42g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> On Nov 27, 4:15=A0pm, JF Mezei wrote: > Ramon Jimenez wrote: > > The source code has not been changed just recompiled on the new > > platform. > > I would consider the possibility that the PASCAL compiler on that IA64 > thing is different from the old one on VAX and that you may have some > logic bug in your program that cause different behaviour. > > Another consideration is to ensure that the LAT device is set to the > same serial parameters (notably number of bits per byte etc). Is the bar > code transmitted using binary data, or is it transmitted using printable > =A0characters (with the label printer generating the bar code itself) ? Aren't the comms characteristics (speed, bits, parity, etc) usually set by the terminal server port? So if it works OK on the old app on the same printer (and with a different app on the new box) it's probably not the port characteristics that are wrong, right? I suspect a latent bug, such as partly uninitialised structure or similar, or maybe a buffer overflow, maybe a data alignment issue, who knows, anyway a problem which clearly didn't cause visible problems on the old box, has emerged to cause havoc in the new box. (Re)Compile as strictly as possible with as many runtime checks as possible, understand any compiler warnings (some may be 'harmless', some may not), see if any runtime errors are reported and if it still misbehaves. Then as VAXMAN says, if further investigation is needed, use the debugger to see what the program is actually doing, with particular reference to the bits of the program that generate the strings that should produce the actual barcode. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 23:04:42 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: LAT BARCODE PRINTER Message-ID: Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > Ramon Jimenez wrote: >> Hi we have ported a Pascal App. from a VAX to an Integrity. >> >> The source code has not been changed just recompiled on the new >> platform. >> >> Applications sends data to a Printronix T5308 label printer. In the >> old plattform it prints barcodes on the label but in the new the label >> is generated but the barcode is not shown. >> >> LAT configuration is the same in the both machines, and seems like >> ports on decservers are ok, in fact they are the same decservers. >> >> Another program which has been also recompiled is able to print the >> barcode. >> >> Any suggestion about the way to troubleshot and fix this issue? >> >> Regards Ramon >> > > Look at the codes actually being sent to the printer. You can be fairly > certain that the printer is doing what it's being told to do! Your > program is almost certainly sending erroneous codes to the printer. > > You may have to dig up an RS232 analyzer (for a serial printer)... Or simply replace the printer with a PC with some terminal running and log the "printout"... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 21:12:14 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: OT: Former VMS guy need small free database Message-ID: <492f5374$0$90270$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Eric wrote: > On 2008-11-19, Randy Park wrote: >> >> Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>> Randy Park wrote: >>>> I know this is the wrong forum, but I used to lurk around here a lot >>>> and I know that you guys will give a straight answer plus many of you >>>> may have already done what I trying to do. >>>> >>>> First of all my background. I was a software developer from 1975 >>>> until the late 1990s. I developed software on OpenVMS systems >>>> eventually writing code to interface to Oracle, Ingres, Rdb, Sybase, >>>> Progress, and Interbase databases, somtimes simultaneously. I would >>>> use their native call routines whenever possible. I had very little >>>> use for any tools that sat on top of the database engine other than >>>> the interactive SQL tool. I also have very extensive experience with >>>> indexed file structures (ISAM, B-Tree, etc.). I haven't done any >>>> database development now for at least 15 years, so I'm a bit rusty. >>>> Plus I'm now retired. >>>> >>>> I'm looking for free PC based database (I use that word loosely) >>>> application development tool. I have a very small database >>>> application that I need to develop for our hiking club. The club has >>>> no money to buy any software, let alone any computers to run it. It >>>> works with volunteers only. I volunteered to look at better solution >>>> than a spreadsheet to keep track of the hikes and the hikers. I need >>>> to develop this application in a manner that allows me to transfer the >>>> entire application and database to someone else when I'm no longer >>>> around, move away, get hit by a truck, or whatever. >>>> >>>> The application involves only 4 tables, 3 which will be relatively >>>> stable once loaded, maybe 10% growth in number of rows per year, while >>>> the 4th table will be fairly active, which will be basically a log of >>>> every hike performed by every hiker. Two of the tables will have less >>>> than 10 columns, while the other two may have up to 20 columns. >>>> Pretty simple. >>>> >>>> I need to be able to have a tool that will allow me to develop a form >>>> for easy adding, changing, and deleting of rows in each of the tables. >>>> It would be nice if the form would allow some simple data validation >>>> as it was entered by the end user, such as looking up the Hiker_ID in >>>> the Hiker table when it is being entered into the Hike_Log table. I >>>> also need to develop a few reports, some to validate the integrity of >>>> the data and some to list subsets of the data. >>>> >>>> I looked at the Open Office suite and MySQL. After spending several >>>> hours experimenting, the Open Office database product doesn't appear >>>> to have the capabilities that I need. Some strange requirements >>>> involving a unique integer primary index. Perusing the MySQL web >>>> pages I was not able to find any free tool that allowed the data entry >>>> form development. Maybe it's there, but I couldn't find it. >>>> >>>> Oracle appears to offer a FREE database product called Oracle 10g XE. >>>> (I remember when they wanted thousands of $ from application software >>>> developers to have their application support the Oracle database. So >>>> seeing FREE was a nice surprise.) Their web page also indicates that >>>> SQL developer is also free. But Oracle is so big and complex. The >>>> reporting that I need appears to be available in SQL developer. I >>>> haven't done enough research to see if it allows me to develop the >>>> table maintenance forms that I want. >>>> >>>> Soooo.... Does anyone know of any free PC based database software >>>> tools that provide for fairly simple table data maintenance using forms? >>> The database is not the problem. >>> >>> There are big commercial databases with free edititions: >>> Oracle >>> MS SQLServer >>> IBM DB2 >>> Sybase >>> typical they are called express edition and has a max. of 4 GB data. >>> >>> There are open source database: >>> MySQL >>> PostgreSQL >>> FireBird >>> Derby >>> >>> And then there are the embedded or embeddable databases: >>> MS Access >>> HypersonicSQL/HSQLDB/H2 >>> MS SQLServer CE >>> Firebird >>> >>> You need to decide on whether you want a server that can support >>> multiple users or an embedded database which will work best for >>> single user. >>> >>> Still possible. >>> >>> The problem is the tool to edit data. >>> >>> MS Access is probably easiest but it cost money unless you >>> happen to have MS Office Pro already. >>> >>> OpenOffice is build on top of HSQLDB, but you don't like that. >>> >>> The typical DBA tool is not very end user friendly. >>> >>> You are sure that you don't want to slam some screens together in >>> Java/C#/VB.NET - it is not that difficult - especially not >>> with your background. >> Thanks for the info. I will look at these. I spent time yesterday >> looking at Oracle Express Edition. It is simply too big and complex of >> a product for me to be able to pass on to someone else. I suspect the >> other big free databases are the same way. > > SQLite? (www.sqlite.org) That is absolutely also a possibility. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 21:13:11 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: OT: Former VMS guy need small free database Message-ID: <492f53ad$0$90270$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Randy Park wrote: > Eric wrote: >>> other big free databases are the same way. >> >> SQLite? (www.sqlite.org) >> e. > > This appears to be a library of callable routines. I need tools. All embedded database are that that by definition. But you could slam together a little VB.NET app using that rather easily. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 21:11:44 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: OT: Former VMS guy need small free database Message-ID: <492f5356$0$90270$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Randy Park wrote: > Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> Randy Park wrote: >>> I know this is the wrong forum, but I used to lurk around here a lot >>> and I know that you guys will give a straight answer plus many of you >>> may have already done what I trying to do. >>> >>> First of all my background. I was a software developer from 1975 >>> until the late 1990s. I developed software on OpenVMS systems >>> eventually writing code to interface to Oracle, Ingres, Rdb, Sybase, >>> Progress, and Interbase databases, somtimes simultaneously. I would >>> use their native call routines whenever possible. I had very little >>> use for any tools that sat on top of the database engine other than >>> the interactive SQL tool. I also have very extensive experience with >>> indexed file structures (ISAM, B-Tree, etc.). I haven't done any >>> database development now for at least 15 years, so I'm a bit rusty. >>> Plus I'm now retired. >>> >>> I'm looking for free PC based database (I use that word loosely) >>> application development tool. I have a very small database >>> application that I need to develop for our hiking club. The club has >>> no money to buy any software, let alone any computers to run it. It >>> works with volunteers only. I volunteered to look at better solution >>> than a spreadsheet to keep track of the hikes and the hikers. I need >>> to develop this application in a manner that allows me to transfer >>> the entire application and database to someone else when I'm no >>> longer around, move away, get hit by a truck, or whatever. >>> >>> The application involves only 4 tables, 3 which will be relatively >>> stable once loaded, maybe 10% growth in number of rows per year, >>> while the 4th table will be fairly active, which will be basically a >>> log of every hike performed by every hiker. Two of the tables will >>> have less than 10 columns, while the other two may have up to 20 >>> columns. Pretty simple. >>> >>> I need to be able to have a tool that will allow me to develop a form >>> for easy adding, changing, and deleting of rows in each of the >>> tables. It would be nice if the form would allow some simple data >>> validation as it was entered by the end user, such as looking up the >>> Hiker_ID in the Hiker table when it is being entered into the >>> Hike_Log table. I also need to develop a few reports, some to >>> validate the integrity of the data and some to list subsets of the data. >>> >>> I looked at the Open Office suite and MySQL. After spending several >>> hours experimenting, the Open Office database product doesn't appear >>> to have the capabilities that I need. Some strange requirements >>> involving a unique integer primary index. Perusing the MySQL web >>> pages I was not able to find any free tool that allowed the data >>> entry form development. Maybe it's there, but I couldn't find it. >>> >>> Oracle appears to offer a FREE database product called Oracle 10g XE. >>> (I remember when they wanted thousands of $ from application software >>> developers to have their application support the Oracle database. So >>> seeing FREE was a nice surprise.) Their web page also indicates that >>> SQL developer is also free. But Oracle is so big and complex. The >>> reporting that I need appears to be available in SQL developer. I >>> haven't done enough research to see if it allows me to develop the >>> table maintenance forms that I want. >>> >>> Soooo.... Does anyone know of any free PC based database software >>> tools that provide for fairly simple table data maintenance using forms? >> >> The database is not the problem. >> >> There are big commercial databases with free edititions: >> Oracle >> MS SQLServer >> IBM DB2 >> Sybase >> typical they are called express edition and has a max. of 4 GB data. >> >> There are open source database: >> MySQL >> PostgreSQL >> FireBird >> Derby >> >> And then there are the embedded or embeddable databases: >> MS Access >> HypersonicSQL/HSQLDB/H2 >> MS SQLServer CE >> Firebird >> >> You need to decide on whether you want a server that can support >> multiple users or an embedded database which will work best for >> single user. >> >> Still possible. >> >> The problem is the tool to edit data. >> >> MS Access is probably easiest but it cost money unless you >> happen to have MS Office Pro already. >> >> OpenOffice is build on top of HSQLDB, but you don't like that. >> >> The typical DBA tool is not very end user friendly. >> >> You are sure that you don't want to slam some screens together in >> Java/C#/VB.NET - it is not that difficult - especially not >> with your background. > > Thanks for the info. I will look at these. I spent time yesterday > looking at Oracle Express Edition. It is simply too big and complex of > a product for me to be able to pass on to someone else. I suspect the > other big free databases are the same way. Then pick one of the small. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 14:05:37 -0800 (PST) From: Pierre Subject: search list, surprising error, inconsistent behavior Message-ID: hi, I was playing with search lists and got a very surprising error. $ cre/dir $1$dka100:[root.subdir1] $ cre/dir $1$dka100:[root.subdir2] $ cre/dir $1$dka200:[root] $ copy tt: $1$dka100:[root.subdir1]afile.txt ^Z $ dir disk:[root.subdir1] Directory DISK:[ROOT.SUBDIR1] AFILE.TXT;1 Total of 1 file. $ dir disk:[root.subdir2] %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening DISK:[ROOT.SUBDIR2]*.*;* as input -RMS-E-DNF, directory not found -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such file VMS does not complain about the missing $1$dka200:[root.subdir1]0 as it found AFILE.TXT in $1$dka100:[root.subdir1] but raises an error if the existing directory on $1$dka100: is empty instead of just the NOSUCHFILE warning :-( I found such a behaviour while testing a program which uses LIB $FIND_FILE. so the faulty is not DCL but the RTL. any idea for a workaround ? (I can not have the same hierarchy on both disks and changing the order of the search list is not a fix as each disk may have its own set of empty directories) TIA, Pierre. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 16:21:37 -0800 (PST) From: FrankS Subject: Re: search list, surprising error, inconsistent behavior Message-ID: On Nov 27, 5:05=A0pm, Pierre wrote: > hi, > > I was playing with search lists and got a very surprising error. > > $ cre/dir $1$dka100:[root.subdir1] > $ cre/dir $1$dka100:[root.subdir2] > $ cre/dir $1$dka200:[root] > $ copy tt: $1$dka100:[root.subdir1]afile.txt > =A0^Z > $ dir disk:[root.subdir1] > > Directory DISK:[ROOT.SUBDIR1] > > AFILE.TXT;1 > > Total of 1 file. > $ dir disk:[root.subdir2] > %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening DISK:[ROOT.SUBDIR2]*.*;* as input > -RMS-E-DNF, directory not found > -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such file > > VMS does not complain about the missing $1$dka200:[root.subdir1]0 as > it found AFILE.TXT in $1$dka100:[root.subdir1] but raises an error if > the existing directory on $1$dka100: is empty instead of just the > NOSUCHFILE warning :-( > > I found such a behaviour while testing a program which uses LIB > $FIND_FILE. so the faulty is not DCL but the RTL. > > any idea for a workaround ? (I can not have the same hierarchy on both > disks and changing the order of the search list is not a fix as each > disk may have its own set of empty directories) > > TIA, > Pierre. I don't see a search list definition in your posting. How is the logical name DISK defined? All I can tell is that it's concealed. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 20:16:15 -0800 (PST) From: AEF Subject: Re: search list, surprising error, inconsistent behavior Message-ID: On Nov 27, 5:05 pm, Pierre wrote: > hi, > > I was playing with search lists and got a very surprising error. > > $ cre/dir $1$dka100:[root.subdir1] > $ cre/dir $1$dka100:[root.subdir2] > $ cre/dir $1$dka200:[root] > $ copy tt: $1$dka100:[root.subdir1]afile.txt > ^Z > $ dir disk:[root.subdir1] > > Directory DISK:[ROOT.SUBDIR1] > > AFILE.TXT;1 > > Total of 1 file. > $ dir disk:[root.subdir2] > %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening DISK:[ROOT.SUBDIR2]*.*;* as input > -RMS-E-DNF, directory not found > -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such file > > VMS does not complain about the missing $1$dka200:[root.subdir1]0 as > it found AFILE.TXT in $1$dka100:[root.subdir1] but raises an error if > the existing directory on $1$dka100: is empty instead of just the > NOSUCHFILE warning :-( > > I found such a behaviour while testing a program which uses LIB > $FIND_FILE. so the faulty is not DCL but the RTL. > > any idea for a workaround ? (I can not have the same hierarchy on both > disks and changing the order of the search list is not a fix as each > disk may have its own set of empty directories) > > TIA, > Pierre. How is "DISK" defined? My guess is that you have it to be $ DEFINE DISK $1$DKA100:,$1$DKA200: If this is the case, then everything is working fine. When you run $ dir disk:[root.subdir1] a directory with this name exists on both disks and no error results. When you run $ dir disk:[root.subdir2], there is no such directory on $1$DKA200; hence the error. 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I don't think comp.os.vms audience is the best market for selling WoW gold. :-) Arne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 19:44:32 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Wget Message-ID: <492f3ee6$0$90274$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Steven M. Schweda wrote: > From: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= >> But I have never even thought about using that parse when >> working on an ODS-2 disk. > > Fine, if you use only native VMS programs, or if all you put on a > command line is a file name. As only one example, Zip (non-CLI) has > "-c" and "-C", "-f" and "-F", "-v" and "-V", "-x" and "-X". Wget > (obviously) has some case-sensitive stuff on its command line. I > switched to /PARSE_STYLE = EXTENDED years ago, and the only trouble I've > had is when some lame command procedure supplied with the OS switches it > back when I'm not looking. Hm. I am oldfashioned. To me VMS is supposed to be that way. Arne ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.635 ************************