INFO-VAX Thu, 13 Mar 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 146 Contents: Basics of VMS CAUTION: post is ON TOPIC Re: CAUTION: post is ON TOPIC DS10 Alphaserver keeps rebooting. What can cause this? Re: Encryption on VMS New HP laptops for sale Re: New HP laptops for sale Re: New HP laptops for sale Re: New HP laptops for sale Re: New HP laptops for sale Re: New HP laptops for sale Re: New HP laptops for sale Re: New HP laptops for sale Re: New HP laptops for sale Re: New HP laptops for sale Re: New HP laptops for sale Re: ntp on vms ver 6.2 with ucx Re: ntp on vms ver 6.2 with ucx Re: ntp on vms ver 6.2 with ucx Re: OT: Proof that macintosh is better than VMS Re: OT: Universal healthcare in England failing - boy dies ! Re: OT: Universal healthcare in England failing - boy dies ! Re: OT: Universal healthcare in England failing - boy dies ! Re: Proof that macintosh is better than VMS Re: Proof that macintosh is better than VMS Re: Proof that macintosh is better than VMS Re: Proof that macintosh is better than VMS Re: Proof that macintosh is better than VMS Q: Maximum volume size for NFS disk (MN 4.4A)? Re: Q: Maximum volume size for NFS disk (MN 4.4A)? Recipies of South INDIA Re: Shadow set problem finally solved Re: Shadow set problem finally solved Re: Shadow set problem finally solved Re: Shadow set problem finally solved ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 10:22:48 -0700 (PDT) From: G Publishers Subject: Basics of VMS Message-ID: Hi, I found an interesting link on Basics of VMS. Thought could be shared with all of you. Have a look... http://www.tech2mgr.com/technical/HPMF/vax%20vms%20topics.htm This is a good refresher for interview. Thanks, Gungun. ------------------------------ Date: 13 Mar 2008 13:25:02 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: CAUTION: post is ON TOPIC Message-ID: Has an update to the OpenVMS Alpha calling standard document ever been done? Mine is pretty old (circa VMS 6.1) and I'm wondering if there are any known errata in it. Just for fun I'm doing something that requires walking the call chain and I'd like to know. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 10:37:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Gezelter Subject: Re: CAUTION: post is ON TOPIC Message-ID: On Mar 13, 2:25 pm, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: > Has an update to the OpenVMS Alpha calling standard document ever > been done? Mine is pretty old (circa VMS 6.1) and I'm wondering if > there are any known errata in it. Just for fun I'm doing something > that requires walking the call chain and I'd like to know. Bob, There was, as I recall, an update for the Itanium changes. How much changed in the VAX and Alpha sections, I cannot say as I have not had a reason to compare the older editions carefully. - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 10:35:13 -0700 (PDT) From: caliban Subject: DS10 Alphaserver keeps rebooting. What can cause this? Message-ID: VMS 7.3-2. Have a PCI-TO-VME interface. Is there some signal on the PCI bus that this card could be generating that will cause the computer to reboot, without dump, or OPERATOR.LOG entry? Happens every couple of hours. Looking for a mechanism that will explain the reboots. Is there a PCI reset signal, or something else, that would cause this? Plugged PCI- TO-VME interface into a spare computer and it reboots too, so it's not a problem with the computer itself. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 05:08:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Andrew Subject: Re: Encryption on VMS Message-ID: <562f0dfc-3a0a-4bc7-bbee-55ce4ac5e8dc@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> On 12 Mar, 18:00, ewi...@ewilts.org wrote: > On Mar 12, 11:02 am, Andrew wrote: > > > On 4 Mar, 04:15, ewi...@ewilts.org wrote: > > > > For our environment, we run the NetBackup client on VMS (and it's > > > awesome) and pump all the data to fibre-attached LTO-3 drives front- > > > ended by Decru encryption appliances. It works like a charm. > > > > .../Ed > > > If you don't want to use hardware and you are using Netbackup then > > Symantec supplies a plug in for the Netbackup Media Server which > > encrypts and compresses at the media server itself. You need the > > compression option because if you normally backup data that can be > > compressed to a drive which supports HW compression then encrypting > > the data first will defeat your hardware compression device reducing > > the capacity of your backup tapes. > > I don't know if this is true in LTO-4 or not, but the Decru appliances > compress and encrypt on the fly. You do not waste space on tapes by > using these devices. > > .../Ed Decru provide an inline hardware compression and encryption device. LTO-4 drives also provide drive based encryption and compression as do the STK 10000 series drives. IBM also have a proprietary encrypting drive. The issue with LTO-4, STK etc isn't the ability to encrypt but how you manage the keys. Regards Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 09:16:42 -0400 From: "David Turner, Island Computers" Subject: New HP laptops for sale Message-ID: RB546UA#ABA nx6325 RB546UA#ABA Processor AMD Turion 64 X2 Mobile Processor TL-50 (1.6GHz) Operating System Genuine Windows XP Professional System Memory 1024 MB 667-MHz DDR2 (2 DIMM) Hard Drive 60-GB 5400 rpm SATA Display 15.0-inch XGA Graphics ATI Radeon Xpress 1150, up to 128-MB shared system memory Audio PremierSound High Definition Audio w/24-bit DAC line out/headphone and microphone jacks integrated microphone Communications 56K V.92 modem Integrated Broadcom NetLink Gigabit Ethernet PCI Controller (10/100/1000 NIC) Integrated Wireless Broadcom 4311AG 802.11a/b/g Integrated Security TPM 1.2 Embedded Security Chip HP Biometric Fingerprint Sensor Pointing Device Touchpad with scroll zone Optical Drive DVD/CD-RW Combo Drive Battery 6-cell (55 WHr) Lithium-Ion Power External 65W adapter Warranty 1/1/0 50 pieces left but they are going fast Price each is $855 These are brand New -- Island Computers US Corp PO Box 86 Tybee Island GA 31328 T: 877 636 4332 x201 M: 877 636 4332 x251 I: 00 1 912 786 8501 F: 912 786 8505 E: dturner@islandco.com W: www.islandco.com ------------------------------ Date: 13 Mar 2008 10:02:29 -0600 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: New HP laptops for sale Message-ID: <5uBu5uF2NJgZ@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article , "David Turner, Island Computers" writes: David, you are back to your bad old habits of posting information about non-VMS gear, off topic for this newsgroup. ------------------------------ Date: 13 Mar 2008 14:11:41 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: New HP laptops for sale Message-ID: <63sr0tF29hhb6U1@mid.individual.net> In article <5uBu5uF2NJgZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: > In article , "David Turner, Island Computers" writes: > > > > David, you are back to your bad old habits of posting information > about non-VMS gear, off topic for this newsgroup. I can use his laptops to communicate with my VMS systems. Being at least computer related seems a lot more on topic than the majority of c.o.v traffic. I even took the info to my boss to see if we were in the market for any laptops at the moment. (Sorry Dave, he is a dyed in the wool Lenovo guy!!) As long as he doesn't start selling stoves and refridgerators I would accept that buying even non-VMS products from Island is at least indirectly supporting what is left of VMS. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 10:13:59 -0400 From: "David Turner, Island Computers" Subject: Re: New HP laptops for sale Message-ID: Yeah I know but I figured that most people here would use a laptop to connect to their Alpha systems when not in the office. They do have simple connectivity abilities... And you can run Charon Alpha over XP if you put the 64 bit version on the Laptop. We are actually thinking about doing a giveway on a couple of these.... Just to keep us in mind when buying the real stuff.... Sometimes I just gotta make a noise on the COV newsgroup when I don't hear from the VMS fellas What is weird is the resurgence of Tru64 customers this year.... I guess HP forgot all about them... Thanks HP ! David "Larry Kilgallen" wrote in message news:5uBu5uF2NJgZ@eisner.encompasserve.org... > In article , "David Turner, > Island Computers" writes: > > > > David, you are back to your bad old habits of posting information > about non-VMS gear, off topic for this newsgroup. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 07:21:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Hein RMS van den Heuvel Subject: Re: New HP laptops for sale Message-ID: On Mar 13, 12:02=A0pm, Kilgal...@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote: > In article , "David Turner, = Island Computers" writes: > > > > David, you are back to your bad old habits of posting information > about non-VMS gear, off topic for this newsgroup. Agreed, it is Non-VMS, off-topic (other then that they could run an emulator) But I'd like to cut David some slack. I woudl never have looked for that option withpout this message, and if I needed one now, then I'd love to offer David the business because that way it will go to an OpenVMS friendly store. It may allow David to do bigger and better business overall, including OpenVMS/Alpha. These PC's might just sponsor more DS10 giveaways. Hey Davis, here is how to turn it on-topic: For every 5? 10? 20? of those laptops sold mentioning c.o.v you'll raffle of some Alpha! Hein. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 10:29:34 -0400 From: "David Turner, Island Computers" Subject: Re: New HP laptops for sale Message-ID: Trouble is we would only be passing these through and make a handling fee only. About $75 before shipping. A friend at HP had these and we offered to expose the products available to viable customers that don't call HP support everytime they download spyware. I hate anything PC - I am writing this on an XP system purely because our accounting software is not available on Linux - well not solid at least. So much for Peachtree. Thereagain - I am hearing great things about Charon Vax and Alpha. They run on Proliants - so I shouldn't offer great deals on those systems? I can almost guarantee that 90% of VMS shops have some proliants poking around do things like running Naval missile systems and controlling the automatic nuclear launch button at the whitehouse! (notice lack of Capital letter in whitehouse!) Tee hee "Hein RMS van den Heuvel" wrote in message news:dbf31b0d-3299-47ea-9512-3a851f228df8@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... On Mar 13, 12:02 pm, Kilgal...@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote: > In article , "David Turner, > Island Computers" writes: > > > > David, you are back to your bad old habits of posting information > about non-VMS gear, off topic for this newsgroup. Agreed, it is Non-VMS, off-topic (other then that they could run an emulator) But I'd like to cut David some slack. I woudl never have looked for that option withpout this message, and if I needed one now, then I'd love to offer David the business because that way it will go to an OpenVMS friendly store. It may allow David to do bigger and better business overall, including OpenVMS/Alpha. These PC's might just sponsor more DS10 giveaways. Hey Davis, here is how to turn it on-topic: For every 5? 10? 20? of those laptops sold mentioning c.o.v you'll raffle of some Alpha! Hein. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 08:34:34 -0600 From: Dan O'Reilly Subject: Re: New HP laptops for sale Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20080313083327.02504050@raptor.psccos.com> Besides,with all the *WAY* off-topic political crap that occasionally storms thru here, this is a heckuva lot closer to on-topic than all that sh...er...stuff. At 08:21 AM 3/13/2008, Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote: >On Mar 13, 12:02 pm, Kilgal...@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote: > > In article , "David > Turner, Island Computers" writes: > > > > > > > > David, you are back to your bad old habits of posting information > > about non-VMS gear, off topic for this newsgroup. > >Agreed, it is Non-VMS, off-topic (other then that they could run an >emulator) >But I'd like to cut David some slack. >I woudl never have looked for that option withpout this message, and >if I needed one now, then I'd love to offer David the business because >that way it will go to an OpenVMS friendly store. >It may allow David to do bigger and better business overall, including >OpenVMS/Alpha. >These PC's might just sponsor more DS10 giveaways. > >Hey Davis, here is how to turn it on-topic: >For every 5? 10? 20? of those laptops sold mentioning c.o.v you'll >raffle of some Alpha! > >Hein. ------ +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+ | Dan O'Reilly | "There are 10 types of people in this | | Principal Engineer | world: those who understand binary | | Process Software | and those who don't." | | http://www.process.com | | +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: 13 Mar 2008 16:00:06 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: New HP laptops for sale Message-ID: <47d94f86$0$5604$607ed4bc@cv.net> In article , "David Turner, Island Computers" writes: >RB546UA#ABA > > nx6325 > RB546UA#ABA > Processor > AMD Turion 64 X2 Mobile Processor TL-50 (1.6GHz) > > Operating System > Genuine Windows XP Professional > > System Memory > 1024 MB 667-MHz DDR2 (2 DIMM) > > Hard Drive > 60-GB 5400 rpm SATA > > Display > 15.0-inch XGA > > Graphics > ATI Radeon Xpress 1150, up to 128-MB shared system memory > > Audio > PremierSound High Definition Audio w/24-bit DAC > line out/headphone and microphone jacks > integrated microphone > > Communications > 56K V.92 modem > Integrated Broadcom NetLink Gigabit Ethernet PCI Controller >(10/100/1000 NIC) > > Integrated Wireless > Broadcom 4311AG 802.11a/b/g > > Integrated Security > TPM 1.2 Embedded Security Chip > HP Biometric Fingerprint Sensor > > Pointing Device > Touchpad with scroll zone > > Optical Drive > DVD/CD-RW Combo Drive > > Battery > 6-cell (55 WHr) Lithium-Ion > > Power > External 65W adapter > > Warranty > 1/1/0 > > > > >50 pieces left but they are going fast > >Price each is $855 >These are brand New How much can I get one for without the M$ Virus installed and Billy-tax free? -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 09:10:14 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: New HP laptops for sale Message-ID: Reserve one for me. With Excursion running on it, makes a good head to VMS cluster On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 06:16:42 -0700, David Turner, Island Computers wrote: > RB546UA#ABA > > nx6325 > RB546UA#ABA > Processor > AMD Turion 64 X2 Mobile Processor TL-50 (1.6GHz) > > Operating System > Genuine Windows XP Professional > > System Memory > 1024 MB 667-MHz DDR2 (2 DIMM) > > Hard Drive > 60-GB 5400 rpm SATA > > Display > 15.0-inch XGA > > Graphics > ATI Radeon Xpress 1150, up to 128-MB shared system memory > > Audio > PremierSound High Definition Audio w/24-bit DAC > line out/headphone and microphone jacks > integrated microphone > > Communications > 56K V.92 modem > Integrated Broadcom NetLink Gigabit Ethernet PCI Controller > (10/100/1000 NIC) > > Integrated Wireless > Broadcom 4311AG 802.11a/b/g > > Integrated Security > TPM 1.2 Embedded Security Chip > HP Biometric Fingerprint Sensor > > Pointing Device > Touchpad with scroll zone > > Optical Drive > DVD/CD-RW Combo Drive > > Battery > 6-cell (55 WHr) Lithium-Ion > > Power > External 65W adapter > > Warranty > 1/1/0 > > > > > 50 pieces left but they are going fast > > Price each is $855 > These are brand New > -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: 13 Mar 2008 16:08:31 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: New HP laptops for sale Message-ID: <63t1rvF29678eU1@mid.individual.net> In article <47d94f86$0$5604$607ed4bc@cv.net>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > In article , "David Turner, Island Computers" writes: >>RB546UA#ABA >> >> nx6325 >> RB546UA#ABA >> Processor >> AMD Turion 64 X2 Mobile Processor TL-50 (1.6GHz) >> >> Operating System >> Genuine Windows XP Professional >> >> System Memory >> 1024 MB 667-MHz DDR2 (2 DIMM) >> >> Hard Drive >> 60-GB 5400 rpm SATA >> >> Display >> 15.0-inch XGA >> >> Graphics >> ATI Radeon Xpress 1150, up to 128-MB shared system memory >> >> Audio >> PremierSound High Definition Audio w/24-bit DAC >> line out/headphone and microphone jacks >> integrated microphone >> >> Communications >> 56K V.92 modem >> Integrated Broadcom NetLink Gigabit Ethernet PCI Controller >>(10/100/1000 NIC) >> >> Integrated Wireless >> Broadcom 4311AG 802.11a/b/g >> >> Integrated Security >> TPM 1.2 Embedded Security Chip >> HP Biometric Fingerprint Sensor >> >> Pointing Device >> Touchpad with scroll zone >> >> Optical Drive >> DVD/CD-RW Combo Drive >> >> Battery >> 6-cell (55 WHr) Lithium-Ion >> >> Power >> External 65W adapter >> >> Warranty >> 1/1/0 >> >> >> >> >>50 pieces left but they are going fast >> >>Price each is $855 >>These are brand New > > How much can I get one for without the M$ Virus installed and Billy-tax free? > $855 You can run the virus removal tool of your choice after you get it. I swear, if someone offered people here a Ferrari for $25 they would ask for a price cut!! bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 12:29:24 -0400 From: "David Turner, Island Computers" Subject: Re: New HP laptops for sale Message-ID: Without XP $855 We could put Ubuntu on it for you though. That's free! I am running Ubuntu on my HP Turion laptop 64 Bit takes a while to boot but I hear the 32bit version runs a treat ! DT wrote in message news:47d94f86$0$5604$607ed4bc@cv.net... > In article , "David Turner, > Island Computers" writes: >>RB546UA#ABA >> >> nx6325 >> RB546UA#ABA >> Processor >> AMD Turion 64 X2 Mobile Processor TL-50 (1.6GHz) >> >> Operating System >> Genuine Windows XP Professional >> >> System Memory >> 1024 MB 667-MHz DDR2 (2 DIMM) >> >> Hard Drive >> 60-GB 5400 rpm SATA >> >> Display >> 15.0-inch XGA >> >> Graphics >> ATI Radeon Xpress 1150, up to 128-MB shared system memory >> >> Audio >> PremierSound High Definition Audio w/24-bit DAC >> line out/headphone and microphone jacks >> integrated microphone >> >> Communications >> 56K V.92 modem >> Integrated Broadcom NetLink Gigabit Ethernet PCI Controller >>(10/100/1000 NIC) >> >> Integrated Wireless >> Broadcom 4311AG 802.11a/b/g >> >> Integrated Security >> TPM 1.2 Embedded Security Chip >> HP Biometric Fingerprint Sensor >> >> Pointing Device >> Touchpad with scroll zone >> >> Optical Drive >> DVD/CD-RW Combo Drive >> >> Battery >> 6-cell (55 WHr) Lithium-Ion >> >> Power >> External 65W adapter >> >> Warranty >> 1/1/0 >> >> >> >> >>50 pieces left but they are going fast >> >>Price each is $855 >>These are brand New > > How much can I get one for without the M$ Virus installed and Billy-tax > free? > > -- > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker > VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" > > http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 08:08:57 +0200 From: "Jack" Subject: Re: ntp on vms ver 6.2 with ucx Message-ID: Thanks, I'm not sure that I gave all the details... I need to get the time service in the vms(vms mchine is just the client) from a remote ntp server. Is your answer still valid? Regards Jack ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 02:30:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Volker Halle Subject: Re: ntp on vms ver 6.2 with ucx Message-ID: <505a2b5f-c44c-425c-ae76-a081475990b9@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> Jack, just enter the IP address (a.b.c.d) of your NTP server in the peer a.b.c.d line in your UCX$NTP.CONF file on your OpenVMS V6.2 system. Volker. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 02:34:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Volker Halle Subject: Re: ntp on vms ver 6.2 with ucx Message-ID: <389d2489-9f82-48ed-a68f-fa5021ca678f@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> Jack, also consider to read the UCX$NTP.TEMPLATE or .CONF file about the use of the logical UCX$NTP_TZ Volker. ------------------------------ Date: 13 Mar 2008 11:18:08 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: OT: Proof that macintosh is better than VMS Message-ID: In article <47D86BD9.5020004@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > > If those people cared to hire a lawyer they might make a great deal of > money from such a sequence of events. In many cases those folks are treated well, but not allowed to play. That costs the casino less. The City of Lost Wages does not have a problem passing laws that make the casinos happy. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 09:43:22 -0700 (PDT) From: ultradwc@gmail.com Subject: Re: OT: Universal healthcare in England failing - boy dies ! Message-ID: <8b2337c8-0524-49fe-9dc2-b05578034bc0@m34g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> On Mar 12, 7:46 pm, AEF wrote: > On Mar 11, 10:39 am, ultra...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > On Mar 11, 4:32 am, Mark Daniel wrote: > > > yes, Moses and the Israelites were under the old law ... > > they had the ten commandments, and God dwelt among them ... > > sin was purged out of the nation ... if you broke a commandment, you > > were stoned ... that is because sin is serious to God, and with > > them sinning while He was right amongst them where they saw > > all the miracles, > > > but the old law passed away when Christ died on the cross for > > those sins ... remember when Mary Magdelene was brought > > before Jesus to be stoned, He said that let him without sin > > cast the first stone ... He was changing things ... > > > but the Catholic church I believe carries things too far when > > they want to do away with the death penalty ... > > > remember the thieves on the cross with Jesus ... the one > > on the right repented and Christ said today you shall be > > with me in paradise, but he did not say alright, get this guy > > down from here because he has repented ... notice when > > the thief on the left did not repent, the one on the right said > > before Christ forgave him that they were getting punished > > because of their sins ... > > > so Christ did not excuse a thief from the death penalty > > physically, but He did excuse him spiritually ... > > > so if capital punishment was wrong, why didn't Christ > > stop it ... because He left it still as a determent in society > > to stop evil ... > > > make sense you capital punishment critics? > > Nope. There was a story on 60 Minutes this week about an innocent > person who spent I think 26 years in prison for murder as another > prisoner confessed to the crime. He is *still* in prison. With capital > punishment we would have executed an innocent man. You like doing that > Bob? and it's not just he. Other prisoners have been exonerated > through DNA evidence. Had the death penalty been in effect yet more > innocent people would have been put to death by the state. > > Also, capital punishment is too expensive. Life in prison without > parole is better. If later a mistake was found, you can at least > release the person. If the person was executed, what are you going to > do. Oh, I forgot. He's in heaven, right? So if innocent people go to > heaven when they die, why is murder a sin? It's because deep down, > even people like you know better. > > And I'm still waiting for your response to my email, so don't whine > about others doing the same to you. > > AEF are you dense? You execute the killers where there is no doubt ... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 09:45:40 -0700 (PDT) From: ultradwc@gmail.com Subject: Re: OT: Universal healthcare in England failing - boy dies ! Message-ID: <4d1b8558-624f-42ac-af50-0db42737e660@b64g2000hsa.googlegroups.com> On Mar 13, 10:58 am, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) wrote: > In article , AEF writes: > > > On Mar 9, 9:30 pm, AEF wrote: > > >> Bob, I'm taking this off-line. I just fired off an email to you from > >> my spamsink2001 address. > > >> AEF > > > Well, Bob. I haven't heard from you. What was that you were saying > > about "liberals" not willing to answer your points (or something like > > that)? > > I would advise you not to waste your time trying to contact Bob privately. > > I've tried communicating with him in email (because COV is not the right > place to have these conversations) and it either bounces or is ignored. > > I get the distinct impression that he's not interested in spending time > talking privately, but just wants to spout his evangelical rants in a > public forum in order to reach as many people as possible and has total > disregard for whether that forum's the right place to have such a > discussion. > > I'm also not impressed that he uses anonymous email addresses or email > addresses that bounce in order to post those rants; if these evangelical > viewpoints are what he truly believes, then why doesn't he sign his > name to them ? > > Bob, once again, you are free to followup in email if you wish, but you > will have to despam the email address below. > > Simon. > > -- > Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP > Microsoft: Bringing you 1980's technology to a 21st century world I do not follow up thru emails ... whatever you or I have to be said can be said right here in public ... this is a forum and that is what it is for ... discussion ... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 10:37:52 -0700 (PDT) From: AEF Subject: Re: OT: Universal healthcare in England failing - boy dies ! Message-ID: <6b96f1f9-12e8-4808-802d-738918ade315@e60g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On Mar 9, 6:20 pm, ultra...@gmail.com wrote: > > > On Mar 7, 1:15 pm, AEF wrote: > > > How do you know there even is "God"? > > look at all the evidence! start with the the accounts of the [...] > how about the shroud of turin? > http://www.theonion.com/content/node/38030 http://www.theonion.com/content/news/shroud_of_turin_accidentally AEF [...] ------------------------------ Date: 13 Mar 2008 10:35:11 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Proof that macintosh is better than VMS Message-ID: <47d9035e$0$15168$607ed4bc@cv.net> In article <1205370365_775@isp.n>, Jeff Campbell writes: >JF Mezei wrote: >> Back to my original post. >> >> Last week, I ran my lottery generator for first time on a Mac and won $10. >> >> I used that $10 to buy 5 lottery tickets (also generated by the same >> program). >> >> 2 of those tickets generated free tickets. >> 2 of those tickets generated $10.00 >> >> so 4 of 5 tickets were winners this week. >> >> When I bragged about the Mac being better than VMS at generating winning >> numbers, I didn't (seriously) think it would repeat itself... This is >> almost creepy :-) :-) >> >> >> After doubling the sample size (from 1 draw to 2 draws :-), I still have >> a 100% success rate at generating a winning ticket each draw :-) :-) > >Only in your universe!!! 8-) 8-) Maybe JF can put his 100% success rate to work on the Power Ball lottery. When he wins it, he can afford to buy VMS and some advertising air time on the TV networks. :) -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 05:12:40 -0700 (PDT) From: AEF Subject: Re: Proof that macintosh is better than VMS Message-ID: On Mar 12, 7:23 pm, AEF wrote: > On Mar 12, 11:16 am, "Fred Zwarts" wrote: > > > "AEF" wrote in messagenews:d605f298-85d8-491f-aeb7-3ba58aa7ac8c@q78g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... [...] > > Studies have been done to see if praying for the sick works. I heard > it was found that those prayed for actually fared a little worse! It > was probably within the margin of error, and so was not statistically > significant. Few people were prayed for more than Princess Di, and > look what happened to her. > > Please read the randi.org reference and other fine stuff on his Web > site. Take his million dollar challenge if you think you can prove > that some god exists. No religious person or "psychic" or others who > claim they can do paranormal things have accepted the challenge. Those > few who have accepted have been found to be frauds. Uh, make that, "Few have taken his challenge, and those few were found to be frauds. Many famous "psychics" and the like (Uri Geller and Sylvia Brown, e.g.) are quite aware of this. Ms. Brown even said she'd do it, but he is still waiting for more than a year now, I think. Check out his Web site. He debunks all sorts of stuff like this. [...] > AEF AEF ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 15:17:34 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: Proof that macintosh is better than VMS Message-ID: In article <962fe$47d80201$817d1b38$4627@news1.tudelft.nl>, "Fred Zwarts" writes: >"AEF" wrote in message = >news:d605f298-85d8-491f-aeb7-3ba58aa7ac8c@q78g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...= > >> >> ... >>=20 >> Scientists have faith in the scientific method which requires >> evidence. Religious people have what James Randi calls "blind >> faith"[1]. That makes all the difference in the world. >>=20 >> [1] See http://www.randi.org/jr/072503.html (Mostly a good article, >> but I disagree with his opinion of the Wizard of Oz.) > >It seems you suggest that scientists and religious people are different. >However, there are many religious scientists. > >Of course our own faith is not blind faith, only the faith of others is. > >> ... >>=20 >> The only faith science requires is faith in evidence, which is exactly >> the opposite of religious faith, which is faith that some people >> hundreds and/or thousands of years ago interacted with some god and >> wrote about it. That's hardly the same. > >You just ignore all other evidence for religious faith. >That makes it easier to call it blind faith. > >Of course the evidence we use counts, the evidence that other people use = >doesn't. >You ignore that even today many people interact with God. >If you can't see God, who is blind? > Unfortunately the evidence for people interacting with God tends to be subjective which makes it difficult to evaluate. To take an extreme example if a killer claims that God spoke to him and told him to kill is he 1) Perfectly correct 2) Has been tricked by the Devil pretending to be God 3) Making it up in an attempt to convice a Jury he is insane or 4) Mentally ill I think most Juries would probably opt for options 3 or 4. David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University > > ------------------------------ Date: 13 Mar 2008 11:40:00 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Proof that macintosh is better than VMS Message-ID: In article <88a389f1-7231-4f3d-b3f9-7c996b10d0b0@n77g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes: > Even if it fails to be exact, certain aspects will survive. NASA still > uses Newtonian gravity to calculate orbits. There is no need to use GR > for that. NASA's Messenger mission might not orbit Mecrury so well without some relatavistic considerations. After all, Mercury's orbit of the Sun disagrees with Newton, you have to bring in GR to get it right. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 16:01:29 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: Proof that macintosh is better than VMS Message-ID: In article <42e3bcd3-a7d0-4fd6-badf-bc7623f68348@u72g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes: >On Mar 12, 8:11 am, davi...@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >> In article , AEF writes: >> >> >> >> >On Mar 11, 1:19 pm, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: >> >> In article , >> >> koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: >> >> >> > In article <960d254f-6ae7-4334-ab8e-e58e2b1ed...@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, Doug Phillips writes: >> >> >> >> You are confusing quantum mechanics math with reality. If you mean >> >> >> that the mathematics of quantum mechanics is not concerned with >> >> >> resolving apparent randomness, then you are correct. You might want to >> >> >> look into the de Broglie-Bohm theory, more recently called Bohmian >> >> >> Mechanics. >> >> >> > Quantum mechanics math vs. reality? You think reality differs? >> >> >> I'll bet a lot of people do. When science requires faith than religion >> >> in order to accept that which can neither be observed nor satisfactorily >> >> proven I think more and more people will see the difference. >> >> >I assume you meant "When science requires *more* faith..." >> >> >Scientists have faith in the scientific method which requires >> >evidence. Religious people have what James Randi calls "blind >> >faith"[1]. That makes all the difference in the world. >> >> >[1] Seehttp://www.randi.org/jr/072503.html(Mostly a good article, >> >but I disagree with his opinion of the Wizard of Oz.) >> >> >As far as using local hidden variables to restore determinism that >> >only "appears" probabilistic, the experimental evidence ruling these >> >out is more compelling than ever. Many, many experiments have been >> >done and QM always, always wins. >> >> This is a strawman since there are non-local hidden variable theories. >> >> >We're not talking about the >> >possibility of experimental error clouding the results. The skeptics >> >who complained that the early experiments could still allow local >> >hidden variables because of events missed by detectors because said >> >detectors were not 100% efficient. OK. But the efficiencies have been >> >greatly improved and the room for determinism has been all but wiped >> >out. Then there is the GHZ paradox which largely sidesteps the issue. >> >There is simply no way to explain the results of GHZ experiments using >> >local hidden variables. >> >> These experiments rule out local realistic theories. >> This just leaves two choices >> >> 1) non-locality >> >> or >> >> 2) non-realism > >But what about Feynman's argument? > >All these things combined (which includes stuff I don't have time to >document here) leads me to believe that there is almost certainly no >way out. > >> >> To my mind the latter doesn't actually make much sense. If the wave function > >What makes sense is not as important as experimental results. See, you >know the drill (Beginning of Chapter 6 and parts of Chapter 7). > >> doesn't actually have a physical existence and a particle doesn't have any >> properties until you measure them then how are entangled particles actually >> linked. (If the wave function does physically exist then it's collapse will be >> a non-local effect so such versions of the Copenhagen interpretation are >> non-local). > >I think the realism quandary is a red herring. QM tells you what you >will observe and that is what you observe. > The problem I have is that such an interpretation is just "thats the way it is" which to me isn't a scientific statement. With non-local interpretations there is at least some possibility that in the future it might be possible to explain the non-locality. If you just take it thats "thats the way it is" then you are in effect giving up on trying to find an explanation. Note. All the interpretations agree on what you will observe so in that sense it doesn't matter. However interpretations can give insight into how to produce a more complete theory and as I have pointed out QM is not the final theory of everything. >As for the "collapse of the wave function" I think of it more as >"altered". The experimenter becomes part of the system. > But where is the boundary. If the experimenter becomes part of the system without the wave function collapsing then why not the whole Universe. I think you've just moved from the Copenhagen interpretation to the Many Worlds interpretation. Anyway we have discussed this in the past ad-nauseum and as Doug Phillips said this is off topic for comp.os.vms. David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University >AEF > >> >> David Webb >> Security team leader >> CCSS >> Middlesex University >> >> >If you would learn about this, you would probably slowly begin to >> >realize that there is no way out. It is getting to the point where >> >insisting there must be determinism somehow being hidden behind the >> >veil of probability is akin to denying the existence of atoms. Do you >> >deny the existence of atoms? If so, why; and if not, why not? >> >> >I used to be on the deterministic side. I even tried to concoct an >> >explanation for polarization experiments to show how determinism could >> >still prevail, but I quickly found my analysis to be flawed. >> >> >The only faith science requires is faith in evidence, which is exactly >> >the opposite of religious faith, which is faith that some people >> >hundreds and/or thousands of years ago interacted with some god and >> >wrote about it. That's hardly the same. >> >> >AEF >> >> >> bill >> >> >> -- >> >> Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves >> >> billg...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. >> >> University of Scranton | >> >> Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 09:43:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken.Fairfield@gmail.com Subject: Q: Maximum volume size for NFS disk (MN 4.4A)? Message-ID: We're running VMS 7.3-2 on GS-1280's with Multinet 4.4A for TCP/IP. In trying to take a copy of our database (Oracle/RMAN) to some a "special" storage device, we're NFSmount'ing the external storage and getting some very strange results, as follows: A Linux box serves a 6.5TB mount point to VMS/Multinet. The Multinet NFSMOUNT succeeds and we can copy files at will. However, a SHOW DEVICE/FULL on the NFSx device gives bogus number for various fields. For example, Total Blocks reads 1453299520, or about 692GB (not 6500GB). The Logical Volume size shows 51511616 (24GB), and the Free Blocks at mount time is somewhere around 670000000 (315GB). We tried ignoring the obviously incorrect data and forging ahead, but in fact, the Free Blocks decrements as we write data and the RMAN eventually bombed out when we got ~310GB written to the device. Given the age of the software, I'm not surprised. It looks like Linux handed Multinet an integer size too big to fit in a longword (or similar) and so it picks up and uses the least significant 32bits (just speculation, but...). So my question is, what is the maximum size of an ODS-2 disk prior to the recent enhancements for Alpha (not just ODS-5, but the volume expansion stuff related to changes in BITMAP.SYS, etc.)? The Help just talks about cluster size (due to old BITMAP constraints). I've opened a call with Process Software, but don't have an answer yet. I'm hoping we can partition down the 6.5TB into several manageable size pieces, but I'd like an idea of what that size should be. Thanks! -Ken -- Ken & Ann Fairfield What: Ken dot And dot Ann Where: Gmail dot Com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 10:37:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Volker Halle Subject: Re: Q: Maximum volume size for NFS disk (MN 4.4A)? Message-ID: <3c237e2a-5ef9-4725-ada3-917c00ec92cc@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com> Ken, the maximum volume size for an individual OpenVMS disk volume is 1 TB (since V6.0). Volker. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 08:10:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Santhosh1992 Subject: Recipies of South INDIA Message-ID: <32287f28-53d4-41a4-b5fd-e2bdd4d22073@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com> Do you want to know to how to make mouthwatering,spicy foods? If you want to know how to make delicious South Indian foods please visit http://recipesoftamilnadu.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 05:33:05 -0700 (PDT) From: tadamsmar Subject: Re: Shadow set problem finally solved Message-ID: <1e4e769c-0dcb-4d9e-b134-c8b7822ef9e7@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Mar 12, 9:08=A0pm, BEGINcornel...@decuserve.orgEND (George Cornelius) wrote: > In article <10b5d716-18aa-4705-bec3-dc169725a...@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.= com>, tadamsmar writes: > > > > > > > On Mar 8, 5:22pm, George Cornelius wrote: > >> This thing really seems to be going nowhere. It sure seems to me that > >> this is a standard, pure-vanilla problem of a shadow set having a force= d > >> error that VMS replicates on every shadow copy, something that's been > >> around since Phase I shadowing and RA series drives. > > >> If that is the case, the solution is to overwrite the block in question= . > > >> You should, just to be thorough, examine [000000]BADBLK.SYS and if it > >> has any allocation, check its LBN's with $ DUMP/HEADER/BLOCK=3DC:0 . > >> [...] you can also do this: > > >> $ create/fdl=3Dsys$input JUNK.TMP001 > >> area 0;allocation 1;contig yes;exact_positioning yes;position logical -= > >> =A016578125 > >> > > [...] > > > How do I look at BADBLK.SYS for a shadow set? > > I supplied a $ DUMP command. =A0But, never mind. =A0I only mentioned it fo= r > thoroughness. =A0We already know in your case that the block is not alloca= ted > anywhere. > > > How about doing this: > > > 1. =A0Break out a member. > > 2. =A0Do an back/image on the member > > 3. =A0init/eras the member > > 4. =A0restore the image on the member > > 5. =A0boot on the member, making it the only member of the shadowset. > > 6. =A0merge the other disk into the shadowset > > Yes, and if not a boot disk the following [after being certain nothing wil= l be > writing to DSAn] would be more direct: > > =A0$ dismount member2 > =A0$ initialize/erase/system member2: dummy ! No special init command need= ed > =A0$ mount/foreign/noassist/override=3Dshadow_membership member2 > =A0$ backup/image/noalias DSAn: member2: ! Default init params are from so= urce vol > =A0$ dismount DSAn: > =A0$ dismount member2: > =A0$ mount/sys DSAn:/shadow=3Dmember2:/conf label ! /conf just in case .-2= failed > =A0$ ! > > Even if it is a boot disk you may be able to do the above steps by booting= > from CDROM. > > My temp file technique solves the problem outright. There are no mounts an= d > dismounts; nor are there shadow copies. > > Since it uses VMS to allocate the LBN into a temp file, it does not alloca= te > the LBN unless it is free. =A0This means you do not have to worry that it = can > destroy data in some random file. > > > Would that get rid of all these parity errors? > > Both approaches do this. =A0One is surgical; the other brute force. > > > It seems a little safer and easier (for me) than trying to write > > blocks to specific LBAs. > > Go for it. It worked! I finally got a clean ANAL/DISK/SHADOW! >You seem to be a bit over your head here, and a procedure you > understand is much better than one that confuses you further. Yes. I was a bit nervous about trying to wipe out four blocks even with the indications that they were not in a file. And I could have made a mistake. I already had a command procedure for disk compression and all I had to do was add an image/erase to it. The one drawback to this procedure is that you have to refrain from working on the computer till it completes, or at least be prepared to copy your work off to a safe place. The system was up, but the system disk was destined to be overwritten. If I just zapped the four blocks I could have avoided this. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 07:15:14 -0700 (PDT) From: tadamsmar Subject: Re: Shadow set problem finally solved Message-ID: On Mar 13, 8:33=A0am, tadamsmar wrote: > On Mar 12, 9:08=A0pm, BEGINcornel...@decuserve.orgEND (George Cornelius) > wrote: > > > > > > > In article <10b5d716-18aa-4705-bec3-dc169725a...@s19g2000prg.googlegroup= s.com>, tadamsmar writes: > > > > On Mar 8, 5:22pm, George Cornelius wrote: > > >> This thing really seems to be going nowhere. It sure seems to me that= > > >> this is a standard, pure-vanilla problem of a shadow set having a for= ced > > >> error that VMS replicates on every shadow copy, something that's been= > > >> around since Phase I shadowing and RA series drives. > > > >> If that is the case, the solution is to overwrite the block in questi= on. > > > >> You should, just to be thorough, examine [000000]BADBLK.SYS and if it= > > >> has any allocation, check its LBN's with $ DUMP/HEADER/BLOCK=3DC:0 . > > >> [...] you can also do this: > > > >> $ create/fdl=3Dsys$input JUNK.TMP001 > > >> area 0;allocation 1;contig yes;exact_positioning yes;position logical= - > > >> =A016578125 > > >> > > > [...] > > > > How do I look at BADBLK.SYS for a shadow set? > > > I supplied a $ DUMP command. =A0But, never mind. =A0I only mentioned it = for > > thoroughness. =A0We already know in your case that the block is not allo= cated > > anywhere. > > > > How about doing this: > > > > 1. =A0Break out a member. > > > 2. =A0Do an back/image on the member > > > 3. =A0init/eras the member > > > 4. =A0restore the image on the member > > > 5. =A0boot on the member, making it the only member of the shadowset. > > > 6. =A0merge the other disk into the shadowset > > > Yes, and if not a boot disk the following [after being certain nothing w= ill be > > writing to DSAn] would be more direct: > > > =A0$ dismount member2 > > =A0$ initialize/erase/system member2: dummy ! No special init command ne= eded > > =A0$ mount/foreign/noassist/override=3Dshadow_membership member2 > > =A0$ backup/image/noalias DSAn: member2: ! Default init params are from = source vol > > =A0$ dismount DSAn: > > =A0$ dismount member2: > > =A0$ mount/sys DSAn:/shadow=3Dmember2:/conf label ! /conf just in case .= -2 failed > > =A0$ ! > > > Even if it is a boot disk you may be able to do the above steps by booti= ng > > from CDROM. > > > My temp file technique solves the problem outright. There are no mounts = and > > dismounts; nor are there shadow copies. > > > Since it uses VMS to allocate the LBN into a temp file, it does not allo= cate > > the LBN unless it is free. =A0This means you do not have to worry that i= t can > > destroy data in some random file. > > > > Would that get rid of all these parity errors? > > > Both approaches do this. =A0One is surgical; the other brute force. > > > > It seems a little safer and easier (for me) than trying to write > > > blocks to specific LBAs. > > > Go for it. > > It worked! =A0I finally got a clean ANAL/DISK/SHADOW! Opps, not quite there. It ran clean on the single disk. But when I add the other disk to the shadowset it reported the 4 blocks with errors. VMS does not want to give these up without a fight. I'm am going to init/erase that disk. I am going to get a real sense of accomplisment when I finally see those two zeros in the error count column of SHOW DEV D. > > >You seem to be a bit over your head here, and a procedure you > > understand is much better than one that confuses you further. > > Yes. =A0I was a bit nervous about trying to wipe out four blocks even > with the indications that they were not in a file. =A0And I could have > made a mistake. > > I already had a command procedure for disk compression and all I had > to do was add an image/erase to it. > > The one drawback to this procedure is that you have to refrain from > working on the computer till it completes, or at least be prepared to > copy your work off to a safe place. =A0The system was up, but the system > disk was destined to be overwritten. > > If I just zapped the four blocks I could have avoided this.- Hide quoted t= ext - > > - Show quoted text - ------------------------------ Date: 13 Mar 2008 16:07:02 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Shadow set problem finally solved Message-ID: <47d95126$0$5604$607ed4bc@cv.net> In article , tadamsmar writes: >{...snip...} > >Opps, not quite there. It ran clean on the single disk. But when I >add the other disk to the shadowset it reported the 4 blocks with >errors. VMS does not want to give these up without a fight. > >I'm am going to init/erase that disk. What happens if you shadow and mount an init'd disk (i.e. nothing on it)? -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 09:35:49 -0700 (PDT) From: tadamsmar Subject: Re: Shadow set problem finally solved Message-ID: <1f5f98b1-5433-4687-953d-c3ac4a3e020f@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> On Mar 13, 12:07=A0pm, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article , tadamsmar writes: > > >{...snip...} > > >Opps, not quite there. =A0It ran clean on the single disk. =A0But when I > >add the other disk to the shadowset it reported the 4 blocks with > >errors. =A0VMS does not want to give these up without a fight. > > >I'm am going to init/erase that disk. > > What happens if you shadow and mount an init'd disk (i.e. nothing on it)? I am not sure exactly what you mean? init without erase? I did not try that. > > -- > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker =A0 VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)= COM > > =A0 "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" > > http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.146 ************************