INFO-VAX Wed, 04 Jul 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 361 Contents: Re: Backup problem Re: Backup problem Re: creating firmware floppies on FreeBSD or VMS Enhancement request - SHOW USER Re: Enhancement request - SHOW USER Re: Enhancement request - SHOW USER Re: Enhancement request - SHOW USER Re: Enhancement request - SHOW USER Re: Enhancement request - SHOW USER Re: Enhancement request - SHOW USER Re: Enhancement request - SHOW USER Re: Enhancement request - SHOW USER Re: expanding shadow size Re: expanding shadow size Re: expanding shadow size Re: Installing 8.3 on DS10L Re: Installing 8.3 on DS10L Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option System Disk ODS2->oDS5 Re: System Disk ODS2->oDS5 Re: Updated TCO study has OpenVMS AGAIN over AIX, Slowaris Using the game file on OpenVMS Hobbyist page Re: Using the game file on OpenVMS Hobbyist page ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 14:30:07 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Backup problem Message-ID: <468A95AF.2080602@comcast.net> Tom Linden wrote: > I was trying to backup a directory for commencing some modifications. > Both src and > and target ar ODS-5 volumes and whether I set /PARSE-EXTENDED or not > the results are the > same. > > ODIN> back/ignore=interlock DISK$COMMON:[moin...] dsa11:[moin...] > %BACKUP-E-OPENOUT, error opening > DSA11:[moin]moin-1^.5^.7-py2^.5.egg-info;1 as output -RMS-E-CRE, ACP > file create failed -SYSTEM-W-BADFILEVER, bad file version number > > Any idea what this all about? > Well, unless there was some reason why I REALLY needed all those "^", I'd just remove them! Just because you CAN make a file name look like a Unix command line is no reason to actually do so!! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 11:11:16 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Backup problem Message-ID: On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 10:28:24 -0700, Tom Linden = wrote: > On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 09:33:13 -0700, Volker Halle = > wrote: > >> Tom, >> >> which version of OpenVMS and which BACKUP patch kit ? >> >> I can successfully do this on OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 whether I set parse-= >> style extended or traditional: >> >> $ back/log/ign=3Dinter/sin *.* dsa64: >> %BACKUP-S-CREDIR, created directory DSA64:[TEMP] >> %BACKUP-S-CREATED, created DSA64:[TEMP]moin-1^.5^.7-py2^.5.egg-info;1= >> >> >> Volker. >> > I tried on both 8.2 and 8.3. > > This is the only patch since 8.3 was installed > DEC AXPVMS VMS83A_UPDATE V1.0 Patch Install Val = > 26-FEB-2007 > > My error, the target was ODS-2 -- = Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 14:42:29 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: creating firmware floppies on FreeBSD or VMS Message-ID: <468AA6A5.4960FADA@spam.comcast.net> Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 28, 2007 at 12:27:58PM -0700, IanMiller wrote: > > I see The Hoff is not in favour of firmware upgrades by floppy > > http://64.223.189.234/node/385 > > thanks a lot, I burned a cd in the end, could not buy an official HP one, > nobody wanted to sell me one. Figures. HP doesn't want the "DEC legacy" Enterprise business. So, between the (censored) off-shored support, the B.S. customer service and their on-going refusal to market, they're doing everything they legally can to drive such customers away. ...including outright refusing to do business with us. Wonder what the stockholders would think about that... -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 15:21:36 -0400 From: "Syltrem" Subject: Enhancement request - SHOW USER Message-ID: <138l8easoc60ae@corp.supernews.com> Hello ! Would it be possible to enhance the SHOW USER command to show all users authenticated on the system, thus including NETWORK and DETACHED processes ? We have more and more client-server applications where clients actually only startup a detached process. SHOW USER is now rendered useless. $ HELP SHOW USER Displays the user name and node name (in an OpenVMS Cluster environment) of interactive, subprocess, and batch users on the system. I`m tired of doing $ SHOW SYSTEM/FULL/OUT=F.LIS $ SEARCH F.LIS MYUSERNAME Or did I miss something ? Thanks Syltrem ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 15:00:07 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Enhancement request - SHOW USER Message-ID: <468AAAC7.42192730@spam.comcast.net> Syltrem wrote: > > Hello ! > > Would it be possible to enhance the SHOW USER command to show all users > authenticated on the system, thus including NETWORK and DETACHED processes ? > We have more and more client-server applications where clients actually only > startup a detached process. > SHOW USER is now rendered useless. > > $ HELP SHOW USER > Displays the user name and node name (in an OpenVMS Cluster > environment) of interactive, subprocess, and batch users on the > system. > > I`m tired of doing > $ SHOW SYSTEM/FULL/OUT=F.LIS > $ SEARCH F.LIS MYUSERNAME > > Or did I miss something ? > > Thanks > > Syltrem Is your VMS new enough to allow: $ pipe SHOW SYSTEM/FULL | search sys$pipe ...? If you need some DCL magic using F$CONTEXT() and F$PID() to select processes and F$GETJPI() to get information, drop me a note privately (how to demung the reply-to should be obvious) and I'll see what I can do. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 16:31:38 -0400 From: "Syltrem" Subject: Re: Enhancement request - SHOW USER Message-ID: <138lchjdleq9kfb@corp.supernews.com> "David J Dachtera" a écrit dans le message de news: 468AAAC7.42192730@spam.comcast.net... > Syltrem wrote: >> >> Hello ! >> >> Would it be possible to enhance the SHOW USER command to show all users >> authenticated on the system, thus including NETWORK and DETACHED >> processes ? >> We have more and more client-server applications where clients actually >> only >> startup a detached process. >> SHOW USER is now rendered useless. >> >> $ HELP SHOW USER >> Displays the user name and node name (in an OpenVMS Cluster >> environment) of interactive, subprocess, and batch users on the >> system. >> >> I`m tired of doing >> $ SHOW SYSTEM/FULL/OUT=F.LIS >> $ SEARCH F.LIS MYUSERNAME >> >> Or did I miss something ? >> >> Thanks >> >> Syltrem > > Is your VMS new enough to allow: > > $ pipe SHOW SYSTEM/FULL | search sys$pipe > > ...? > > If you need some DCL magic using F$CONTEXT() and F$PID() to select > processes and > F$GETJPI() to get information, drop me a note privately (how to demung the > reply-to should be obvious) and I'll see what I can do. > > -- > David J Dachtera Hi David I didn't mean to have it all on one line, I meant to have it in 1 simple command ! No Un*x style ! I know PIPE, I know F$CONTEXT etc but couldn't SHOW USER be enhanced to be more useful when we know more softwares do not work in character mode on dumb terminals anymore ? Most of my important apps do the equivalent of RUN/DETACH/AUTHORIZE So users are having processes out there that SHOW USERS does not see. I know all of the DCL magic... and more (been at it over 20 years). Regards, Syltrem ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:38:14 -0700 From: Bob Gezelter Subject: Re: Enhancement request - SHOW USER Message-ID: <1183495094.838660.95750@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On Jul 3, 2:21 pm, "Syltrem" wrote: > Hello ! > > Would it be possible to enhance the SHOW USER command to show all users > authenticated on the system, thus including NETWORK and DETACHED processes ? > We have more and more client-server applications where clients actually only > startup a detached process. > SHOW USER is now rendered useless. > > $ HELP SHOW USER > Displays the user name and node name (in an OpenVMS Cluster > environment) of interactive, subprocess, and batch users on the > system. > > I`m tired of doing > $ SHOW SYSTEM/FULL/OUT=F.LIS > $ SEARCH F.LIS MYUSERNAME > > Or did I miss something ? > > Thanks > > Syltrem Syltrem, First, what version of OpenVMS are you running? On 6.2, SHOW USERS/ NETWORK/FULL certainly works. On the other hand, if you would like something along the lines of: SHOW USERS/FULL/USER=xxx that is not presently available. However, as David Dachtera has already pointed out in his earlier response to your post, one can certainly write a DCL script using the F$CONTEXT, F$PID, F$GETPI, and other lexical functions to extract precisely the information sought and display it in precisely the format you desire. If you are repetitively doing the same things time and time again, I strongly recommend the DCL command procedure approach, it pays dividends over and over again. I did a DECUS presentation several years back on precisely this point (extending the DCL repertoire by writing command procedures and defining symbols to point to them. The presentation (DCL Jujitsu) was given at the (among others) Fall 1995 DECUS Symposium in San Francisco. The slides are available from: http://www.rlgsc.com/decus/usf95/index.html - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:53:49 -0700 From: Bob Gezelter Subject: Re: Enhancement request - SHOW USER Message-ID: <1183496029.393275.46010@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On Jul 3, 2:21 pm, "Syltrem" wrote: > Hello ! > > Would it be possible to enhance the SHOW USER command to show all users > authenticated on the system, thus including NETWORK and DETACHED processes ? > We have more and more client-server applications where clients actually only > startup a detached process. > SHOW USER is now rendered useless. > > $ HELP SHOW USER > Displays the user name and node name (in an OpenVMS Cluster > environment) of interactive, subprocess, and batch users on the > system. > > I`m tired of doing > $ SHOW SYSTEM/FULL/OUT=F.LIS > $ SEARCH F.LIS MYUSERNAME > > Or did I miss something ? > > Thanks > > Syltrem Syltrem, Another possibility. What about SHOW SYSTEM/OWNER_UIC=[xx,yy] in all of its possible variations? - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 17:07:53 -0400 From: "Syltrem" Subject: Re: Enhancement request - SHOW USER Message-ID: <138lelicr4faq1b@corp.supernews.com> "Bob Gezelter" a écrit dans le message de news: 1183496029.393275.46010@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... > On Jul 3, 2:21 pm, "Syltrem" wrote: >> Hello ! >> >> Would it be possible to enhance the SHOW USER command to show all users >> authenticated on the system, thus including NETWORK and DETACHED >> processes ? >> We have more and more client-server applications where clients actually >> only >> startup a detached process. >> SHOW USER is now rendered useless. >> >> $ HELP SHOW USER >> Displays the user name and node name (in an OpenVMS Cluster >> environment) of interactive, subprocess, and batch users on the >> system. >> >> I`m tired of doing >> $ SHOW SYSTEM/FULL/OUT=F.LIS >> $ SEARCH F.LIS MYUSERNAME >> >> Or did I miss something ? >> >> Thanks >> >> Syltrem > > Syltrem, > > Another possibility. What about SHOW SYSTEM/OWNER_UIC=[xx,yy] in all > of its possible variations? > > - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com > Hi I know there are lots of things we can do programmatically. I'm simply asking if SHOW USER can be updated. I could also just forget about DCL and use LIB$ and SYS$ in a C program, but I think DCL can be improved... and would provide with an easier method (one command) for finding this information DCL is a great tool, but can be made better. You're right about NETWORK, I shouln`t have mentioned it. But DETACHED processes is my concern. Why is it not there ? And can it be changed ? Regards, Syltrem OVMS 8.3 Alpha & IA64 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 16:44:10 -0700 From: Bob Gezelter Subject: Re: Enhancement request - SHOW USER Message-ID: <1183506250.372951.279980@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On Jul 3, 4:07 pm, "Syltrem" wrote: > "Bob Gezelter" a =E9crit dans le message de news: > 1183496029.393275.46...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... > > > > > On Jul 3, 2:21 pm, "Syltrem" wrote: > >> Hello ! > > >> Would it be possible to enhance the SHOW USER command to show all users > >> authenticated on the system, thus including NETWORK and DETACHED > >> processes ? > >> We have more and more client-server applications where clients actually > >> only > >> startup a detached process. > >> SHOW USER is now rendered useless. > > >> $ HELP SHOW USER > >> Displays the user name and node name (in an OpenVMS Cluster > >> environment) of interactive, subprocess, and batch users on the > >> system. > > >> I`m tired of doing > >> $ SHOW SYSTEM/FULL/OUT=3DF.LIS > >> $ SEARCH F.LIS MYUSERNAME > > >> Or did I miss something ? > > >> Thanks > > >> Syltrem > > > Syltrem, > > > Another possibility. What about SHOW SYSTEM/OWNER_UIC=3D[xx,yy] in all > > of its possible variations? > > > - Bob Gezelter,http://www.rlgsc.com > > Hi > > I know there are lots of things we can do programmatically. > I'm simply asking if SHOW USER can be updated. > > I could also just forget about DCL and use LIB$ and SYS$ in a C program, = but > I think DCL can be improved... and would provide with an easier method (o= ne > command) for finding this information > DCL is a great tool, but can be made better. > > You're right about NETWORK, I shouln`t have mentioned it. > But DETACHED processes is my concern. > Why is it not there ? And can it be changed ? > > Regards, > > Syltrem > > OVMS 8.3 Alpha & IA64 Syltrem, What about SHOW SYSTEM/UIC=3D[x,y]? - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 04:07:50 GMT From: John Santos Subject: Re: Enhancement request - SHOW USER Message-ID: Bob Gezelter wrote: > On Jul 3, 4:07 pm, "Syltrem" wrote: > >>"Bob Gezelter" a écrit dans le message de news: >>1183496029.393275.46...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... >> >> >> >> >>>On Jul 3, 2:21 pm, "Syltrem" wrote: >>> >>>>Hello ! >> >>>>Would it be possible to enhance the SHOW USER command to show all users >>>>authenticated on the system, thus including NETWORK and DETACHED >>>>processes ? >>>>We have more and more client-server applications where clients actually >>>>only >>>>startup a detached process. >>>>SHOW USER is now rendered useless. >> >>>>$ HELP SHOW USER >>>>Displays the user name and node name (in an OpenVMS Cluster >>>>environment) of interactive, subprocess, and batch users on the >>>>system. >> >>>>I`m tired of doing >>>>$ SHOW SYSTEM/FULL/OUT=F.LIS >>>>$ SEARCH F.LIS MYUSERNAME >> >>>>Or did I miss something ? >> >>>>Thanks >> >>>>Syltrem >> >>>Syltrem, >> >>>Another possibility. What about SHOW SYSTEM/OWNER_UIC=[xx,yy] in all >>>of its possible variations? >> >>>- Bob Gezelter,http://www.rlgsc.com >> >>Hi >> >>I know there are lots of things we can do programmatically. >>I'm simply asking if SHOW USER can be updated. >> >>I could also just forget about DCL and use LIB$ and SYS$ in a C program, but >>I think DCL can be improved... and would provide with an easier method (one >>command) for finding this information >>DCL is a great tool, but can be made better. >> >>You're right about NETWORK, I shouln`t have mentioned it. >>But DETACHED processes is my concern. >>Why is it not there ? And can it be changed ? >> >>Regards, >> >>Syltrem >> >>OVMS 8.3 Alpha & IA64 > > > Syltrem, > > What about SHOW SYSTEM/UIC=[x,y]? > > - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com > Or SHOW SYSTEM/OWNER= (It's actually an identifier, not a username, but usernames and identifiers usually map 1:1) -- John Santos Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 05:36:02 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Enhancement request - SHOW USER Message-ID: In article <1183495094.838660.95750@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, Bob Gezelter writes: > First, what version of OpenVMS are you running? On 6.2, SHOW USERS/ > NETWORK/FULL certainly works. It "works", also without /FULL, in that it adds a column to the traditional display: Username Node Interactive Subprocess Batch Network However, it lists only network processes, so columns 3--5 are empty! What is needed is the above, or even better Username Node Interactive Subprocess Batch Network Detached where the traditional display is extended, and all processes are listed. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 14:48:02 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: expanding shadow size Message-ID: <468AA7F2.8B4793FD@spam.comcast.net> Malcolm Dunnett wrote: > > Klaus-D. Bohn wrote: > > > Buuuuuuuuuuuuut what is about the availability? That disk is a common disk > > in a high availability cluster. We must do a cluster shutdown to expand the > > volume size? What is that? At this point i can't understand OpenVMS (high > > availability, scalability, flexibility, and so on). Sorry, that is very > > crazy and not acceptable. > > > > I suppose the short answer is that if you'd thought ahead and > set the volume expansion limit at the time the volume was created > you wouldn't have to shut anything down to expand the volume now. > > I wonder why the INIT command doesn't by default set the > volume expansion limit to be the maximum allowable by the > clustersize. Is there a penalty in doing so (other than a > few blocks in the bitmap?) How could VAX/VMS V3.x or so, for example, have anticipated that disk volumes would someday exceed whatever its volume size limit was? Some folks have disk volumes still on-line that have not been initialized for decades. That said, even before this capability was written into VMS, how could the predecessor code have anticipated this and allowed for it - even before the architecture changes were designed? -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 02:36:02 GMT From: John Santos Subject: Re: expanding shadow size Message-ID: AEF wrote: > On Jul 3, 5:28 am, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig--- > remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote: > >>In article <4689ef96$0$27557$9b622...@news.freenet.de>, "Klaus-D. Bohn" >> >> writes: >> >>>Buuuuuuuuuuuuut what is about the availability? That disk is a common disk >>>in a high availability cluster. We must do a cluster shutdown to expand the >>>volume size? What is that? At this point i can't understand OpenVMS (high >>>availability, scalability, flexibility, and so on). Sorry, that is very >>>crazy and not acceptable. >> >>Think about it. You are changing something very low-level in the disk >>structure. I think it is OK to accept some down-time for this, >>especially since this is a relatively new feature of VMS. (If it was >>available from day one, perhaps it could have been implemented without >>down-time.) >> >>Note: I have not yet done this. SET VOLUME/LIMIT requires the private >>MOUNT. I don't think SET VOLUME/SIZE does (at least this is not >>mentioned in HELP, whereas it is for /LIMIT). Assume this is correct. >> SET VOLUME/SIZE most definitely does *NOT* require exclusive access to the disk. >>Get a NEW DISK. Use SET VOLUME/SIZE and perhaps SET VOLUME/LIMIT to get >>it to the size you want. (If I understand correctly, with a cluster >>size of more than 8 the limit is set to the default of 1 TB, which is >>also the maximum.) "Size you want" should be the CURRENT size of the >>shadow set. Now, add this shadow set to the current shadow set (full >>copy); if the current shadow set already has 3 members, drop 1 (just > > > Maybe I'm missing something, but won't the full copy operation > overwrite everything on the NEW DISK, including the SET VOLUME/LIMIT > effects? Yes, it will. This method won't work. > > >>dismount the physical disk; no shutdown or whatever needed) and add in >>the new one with a full copy. Now, get another NEW DISK and set it to >>the same size. When the shadow copy completes, drop the old disk from >>the shadow set and add this new disk with a full copy. (For a >>three-member shadow set, repeat the previous two steps.) Now, use SET >>VOLUME/SIZE to go to the new size. > > > AEF > SET VOLUME/LIMIT creates a new (larger) BITMAP.SYS file and copies the existing BITMAP.SYS to it. There is apparently no way to tell other cluster members to use the new version of BITMAP.SYS except by having them dismount and remount the disk, and no way to prevent the many possible race conditions except by keeping exclusive access to the disk during the process. (Note you also need exclusive access to a disk to initialize it, including INIT/LIMIT.) I suppose they could add code to the XQP to inform the other cluster nodes to reload the bitmap after expanding it (and locking the bitmap while expanding it) but then you couldn't share volumes with older versions of VMS which didn't support this operation. That's a much more common occurrence than set volume/limit which happens at most once in the lifetime of any given disk volume. (Zero times if you never expand it, or if you initialize it with /LIMIT, more than once only if you set an explicit limit value that is stupidly small.) Whereas sharing a volume across different VMS versions happens anytime you do a rolling upgrade, or have a VAX in your cluster. (Maybe this would be a good excuse for demanding VAX VMS V8.x :-) Or are you saying DEC was inexcusably crazy for not anticipating Dynamic Volume Expansion in 1976 when ODS-2 was being designed, or at the very least in 1983 or so when clustering was invented? -- John Santos Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 03:12:19 GMT From: John Santos Subject: Re: expanding shadow size Message-ID: Malcolm Dunnett wrote: > Klaus-D. Bohn wrote: > >> Buuuuuuuuuuuuut what is about the availability? That disk is a common >> disk >> in a high availability cluster. We must do a cluster shutdown to >> expand the >> volume size? What is that? At this point i can't understand OpenVMS (high >> availability, scalability, flexibility, and so on). Sorry, that is very >> crazy and not acceptable. >> > > I suppose the short answer is that if you'd thought ahead and > set the volume expansion limit at the time the volume was created > you wouldn't have to shut anything down to expand the volume now. > > I wonder why the INIT command doesn't by default set the > volume expansion limit to be the maximum allowable by the > clustersize. Is there a penalty in doing so (other than a > few blocks in the bitmap?) Probably because of compatibility. If you add a /limit to an otherwise identical init command, it preallocates the largest possible bitmap consistent with the clustersize and the 1TB maximum size. But if you leave off /limit, it uses the old default rules. A max size bitmap (65535 blocks) may be small on a modern disk, but it is a pretty big chunk of an RA80! It's hard to change defaults... I've posted many reminders in our internal support logs that people need to remember to use the right qualifiers when initing new volumes, including (always) /limit, and often /stru=5, /clus= and to get some help if they aren't sure what to use. -- John Santos Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 11:14:08 -0700 From: sean@obanion.us Subject: Re: Installing 8.3 on DS10L Message-ID: <1183486448.941438.83250@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com> I expect you will need to use WWIDMGR at the SRM prompt to add the disk offered on the HSG80 so that SRM can use it. If WWIDMGR doesn't see it, then I would suspect that the host WWN has not been added to the contoller, and/or Fibre Channel zoning is not configured correctly. Sean On Jul 3, 10:37 am, "Tom Linden" wrote: > I am trying to install on a disk in an HSG80. When prompted for a device I > am given following options, but am missing the drive onto which I wish to > install > > Enter device name for target disk: (? for choices) ? > > Device Device Error Volume Free > Trans Mnt > Name Status Count Label Blocks > Count Cnt > DAD0: Online 0 > DQA0: Offline 1 > DQA1: Offline 1 > DQB0: Mounted wrtlck 0 ALPHA083 7965 > 87 1 > DQB1: Offline 1 > DVA0: Online 0 > $1$DGA1: () Online 0 > $1$DGA2: () Online 0 > $1$DGA3: () Online 0 > $1$DGA4: () Online 0 > $1$DGA5: () Online 0 > $1$DGA6: () Online 0 > $1$DGA7: () Online 0 > $1$DGA8: () Online 0 > $1$DGA9: () Online 0 > $1$DGA10: () Online 0 > > This is not picking up $1$DGA11: > What do I need to do here? > > Seen from the cluster I have > ODIN> sho dev dg > > Device Device Error Volume Free > Trans Mnt > Name Status Count Label Blocks > Count Cnt > $1$DGA1: (ODIN) ShadowSetMember 0 (member of DSA1:) > $1$DGA2: (ODIN) ShadowSetMember 0 (member of DSA1:) > $1$DGA3: (ODIN) ShadowSetMember 0 (member of DSA2:) > $1$DGA4: (ODIN) ShadowSetMember 0 (member of DSA2:) > $1$DGA5: (ODIN) ShadowSetMember 0 (member of DSA11:) > $1$DGA6: (ODIN) ShadowSetMember 0 (member of DSA11:) > $1$DGA7: (ODIN) ShadowSetMember 0 (member of DSA0:) > $1$DGA8: (ODIN) ShadowSetMember 0 (member of DSA0:) > $1$DGA9: (ODIN) ShadowSetMember 0 (member of DSA12:) > $1$DGA10: (ODIN) ShadowSetMember 0 (member of DSA12:) > $1$DGA11: (ODIN) Online 0 > > where $1$DGA11 is a striped mirror set seen from the controller > > HSG80-TOP>sho stripe > Name Storageset Uses Used by > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- > > DVGRPSM0 stripeset MIRR_0 D11 > MIRR_1 > HSG80-TOP>sho mirror > Name Storageset Uses Used by > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- > > MIRR_0 mirrorset DISK50000 DVGRPSM0 > DISK60200 > > MIRR_1 mirrorset DISK30300 DVGRPSM0 > DISK40000 > > -- > PL/I for OpenVMSwww.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 14:32:20 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Installing 8.3 on DS10L Message-ID: On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 11:14:08 -0700, wrote: > I expect you will need to use WWIDMGR at the SRM prompt to add the > disk offered on the HSG80 so that SRM can use it. > If WWIDMGR doesn't see it, then I would suspect that the host WWN has > not been added to the contoller, and/or Fibre Channel zoning is not > configured correctly. I had forgotten to update the access in the HSG80, which was a list, replaced with ALL -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 11:58:30 -0600 From: Keith Parris Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: IanMiller wrote: > See the video at > > http://www.hp.com/go/disasterproof > > and see which operating system recovers first. Now on YouTube: http://youtube.com/watch?v=qMCHpUtJnEI > I wonder about the disaster tolerant fish though :-) Those were apparently a cross between goldfish and flying fish. :-) The fish were there to provide continuity from the prequel Bulletproof XP video -- see http://h71028.www7.hp.com/ERC/cache/320954-0-0-0-121.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 12:08:15 -0600 From: Keith Parris Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: IanMiller wrote: > I also thought it interesting that the non-stop system took longer than > VMS to failover. With OpenVMS all sites can be active at once, in a symmetrical configuration, so it's not so much a matter of failover as of simply continuing to operate at the surviving site(s). NonStop provides great fault tolerance within a box, but multi-site configurations are not active/active. With failover clusters, you lose time failing the storage over to the backup site, firing up the database and applications, and then resuming service. It can help on some platforms if you use Oracle RAC (effectively using 3rd-hand OpenVMS technology, by way of TruClusters), but that only helps with the database contents, not everything around it. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 12:26:42 -0600 From: Keith Parris Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: Ken Robinson wrote: > Now if this page can be highlighted on the HP.COM main page. Just looked, and it is now, with the "Disaster Proof" stamp picture at the center-right. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:06:21 -0600 From: Keith Parris Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: FredK wrote: > Fastest failover (in fact we are looking at why we weren't even > faster in the test). Sorry. My fault. We had limited time for testing different parameter combinations at the staging site in Roseville, CA, Leo Demers might have tightened them up a bit on-site, but at the point in time where he was ready to do that, a thunderstorm hit, driving all the staff away from the open field (where the equipment was protected only by a tent), and then a lightning strike set two of the three transformers on fire at the substation serving the test site, and so we ended up using a fairly conservative set of parameter settings. SHADOW_MBR_TMO was lowered from the default of 120 seconds down to 8 seconds. TIMVCFAIL was lowered to a value of 400 (in units of 10-millisecond clock ticks) to provide a worst-case node failure detection time of 4 seconds. LAN_FLAGS bit 12 was set to enable Fast LAN Transmit Timeout at 1.25 seconds (so that if PEDRIVER couldn't send a Hello packet, it would give up on a path faster). PE4 was set to hexadecimal x0307 to set the Hello timeout interval to 3 seconds instead of the default 8 seconds (allowing path failure detection in 3-4 seconds instead of the default 8-9 seconds) and to send out Hello packets at a nominal spacing of 0.7 seconds instead of the default 3 seconds. RECNXINTERVAL was lowered from the default value of 20 seconds down to 10 seconds. The HP ProCurve switches used the IEEE 802.1s/802.1w Spanning Tree algorithm so Spanning Tree reconfiguration could occur in a fraction of a second so packets could be forwarded again quickly. It appears in the actual event we got a slightly better failure detection time than the worst-case guarantee of 4 seconds. (With the way the TIMVCFAIL mechanism works, actual detection time can be as little as 1/3 of TIMVCFAIL, or as much as the entire TIMVCFAIL value). Then we waited for 10 seconds because of RECNXINTERVAL, in vain hope the remote node would return. In the meantime, SHADOW_MBR_TMO expired at 8 seconds and Shadowing threw out the shadowset members. Finally, we had a cluster state transition taking probably a small fraction of a second, with a total time of 13.71 seconds before the applications could continue after the explosion. Obviously, we could have done better. I know some of you folks out there are achieving 4-5 second times in your own production clusters. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:10:08 -0600 From: Keith Parris Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > I liked the video. My wife commented that it is a typical male thing, > a woman would just swith the power off. Seriously though, is exploding > any more damaging to availability than a power cut? Mean Time To Repair (MTTR) is longer with an explosion. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:25:41 -0600 From: Keith Parris Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > They blew up an ES40? Crap. Why not donate it to me? Worse yet, two ES40s. We originally planned to blow up a GS-160 (the Wildfire code name seemed particularly appropriate), but that box had a hardware failure, so OpenVMS Engineering sent an ES40 (plus a spare box in the same rack) instead. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 14:37:32 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: <468AA57C.18C03B6A@spam.comcast.net> Bob Koehler wrote: > > In article , Bill Todd writes: > > Bob Koehler wrote: > > > > ... > > > > It's MS crap. I know their business model and there > >> is pressure to produce low quality products so they can sell you > >> a replacement next year. > > > > Not quite: it's pressure to push products out the door with all sorts > > of bells and whistles that will entice you to buy them *this* year (or > > at least this product cycle). > > While that is true, I know from former Microsoft employees that there > is actually presure to include bugs. Yeah, well, y'know - health nuts: adding extra protein. :-) -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 14:08:20 -0600 From: Keith Parris Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: JF Mezei wrote: > The Alpha was connected only to the other side via IP (red lines) and FC > (green lines) for the storage controllers. > > Would it be correct to state that the red lines with the HP ProCurve > switches are really ethernet lines ? > > (aka: did SCS traffic flow through the red lines or the green lines?) Red lines. Connections labeled IP in the OpenVMS diagram should be labeled LAN. We're working on SCS-over-IP (that's in the Roadmap), but didn't use that for this demonstration, nor did Fibre Channel carry SCS traffic. > Does this mean that the storage arrays have no quorum mechanism ? I'm not aware of any storage arrays which have a concept of quorum. OpenVMS (or other cluster software) provides the quorum scheme. > Does this mean that with a cut in the FC cable, both storage arrays > would remain available/operational to the local OS instances ? Yes, and since MSCP serving was enabled, OpenVMS would happily continue, as long as it still had its LAN link between sites. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 15:04:31 -0600 From: Keith Parris Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: Bill Gunshannon wrote: > What they would really need are some verifiable, real world testimonials > from people who's datacenters have survived disasters like floods or > tornadoes or earthquakes. You mean like Commerzbank on 9/11? http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/brochures/commerzbank/ Or like the Credit Lyonnais headquarters fire in Paris? “In any disaster, the key is to protect the data. If you lose your CPUs, you can replace them. If you lose your network, you can rebuild it. If you lose your data, you are down for several months. In the capital markets, that means you are dead. During the fire at our headquarters, the DIGITAL VMS Clusters were very effective at protecting the data.” —Patrick Hummel, IT Director, Capital Markets Division, Credit Lyonnais ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 15:19:09 -0600 From: Keith Parris Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: David Turner, Island Computers wrote: > Does anyone know where those destroyed systems are being stored. > > Anyone think they are worth buying for parts? > > ;0) There wasn't much left to store. At the HP booth at HP Technology Forum they were handing out pieces of the debris which had been encased in clear acrylic. I was very pleased to receive one. It contains the remains of an integrated circuit about an inch and a quarter square. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 15:22:22 -0600 From: Keith Parris Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: JF Mezei wrote: > Sept 11 2001 was a state of Limbo for VMS. Curly murdered Alpha on June > 25 2001. Carly and Curly announced their engagement on Sept 7th 2001. > Nothing was said about VMS' future until May 7th 2002. As has been pointed out here before, HP said within days of the acquisition announcement that it was carrying forward Compaq's plans to port OpenVMS to Itanium. Unfortunately, that public statement was made to a group of mostly-UNIX folks and the message didn't get out well to the VMS base. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 17:49:43 -0400 From: Bill Todd Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: <94OdnXychoolWRfbnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com> Bob Koehler wrote: > In article , Bill Todd writes: >> Bob Koehler wrote: >> >> ... >> >> It's MS crap. I know their business model and there >>> is pressure to produce low quality products so they can sell you >>> a replacement next year. >> Not quite: it's pressure to push products out the door with all sorts >> of bells and whistles that will entice you to buy them *this* year (or >> at least this product cycle). > > While that is true, I know from former Microsoft employees that there > is actually presure to include bugs. I have no doubt that there is pressure to *ship with* known bugs rather than take the time to eliminate them. I'm less convinced that they create them deliberately in order to make the next release more attractive - especially given the typical delay before a next release appears (during which the currently-selling product would be *less* attractive), and the fact that they actually attempt to fix bugs on the fly rather than just say "Fixed in next release". - bill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 18:03:53 -0400 From: Bill Todd Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: Main, Kerry wrote: ... > If the design and/or architecture of the OS platform allows an > application bug to provide access to protected data and/or provides > elevated rights on the system, does sit matter if it is an application > or kernel OS issue? Clearly, that would be an OS bug (or at least a serious design flaw, if indeed it were intentional rather than inadvertent) - *if* it had been the case in this instance. It was not: the bugs *only* affected Exchange Server. If Exchange Server was designed such that it had to execute in a privileged environment (such that once compromised itself it could compromise other parts of the system as you describe above), rather than designed modularly such that at most a few critical parts of it might require privilege (certainly not including the parsing functions that these bugs affected) and the rest could run unprivileged, that was an *Exchange Server* design flaw, not a Windows flaw. - bill ------------------------------ Date: 3 Jul 2007 17:13:51 -0500 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: In article , Keith Parris writes: > Ken Robinson wrote: >> Now if this page can be highlighted on the HP.COM main page. > > Just looked, and it is now, with the "Disaster Proof" stamp picture at > the center-right. Not on my browser. Or else I did not look before they took it down. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 22:46:04 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: Larry Kilgallen wrote: > In article , Keith Parris writes: >> Ken Robinson wrote: >>> Now if this page can be highlighted on the HP.COM main page. >> Just looked, and it is now, with the "Disaster Proof" stamp picture at >> the center-right. > > Not on my browser. Or else I did not look before they took it down. The page opens with a image saying "Fiona Ogre Princess", then in a few seconds, switch to "Disaster Proofing" at the same location. Just to the right of the "Supplies & Accessories:" button. Works perfect for me. Best Regards, Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 17:00:04 -0600 From: Keith Parris Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: Larry Kilgallen wrote: > Not on my browser. Or else I did not look before they took it down. For me it's still there. It's about 2/3s of the way down on the right-hand margin. It's a graphic which says: Disaster proofing >> Explosive video shows IT services recover in seconds Hmmm... In IE7 I see the above. In Mozilla and Firefox there's a different graphic in the same spot pointing to a "Fiona Ogre Princess" video advertising HP multimedia laptops. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 19:15:24 -0400 From: "Ken Robinson" Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: <7dd80f60707031615hb34a80dl788ae80fd6b5ee16@mail.gmail.com> On 7/3/07, Keith Parris wrote: > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > > Not on my browser. Or else I did not look before they took it down. > > For me it's still there. It's about 2/3s of the way down on the > right-hand margin. It's a graphic which says: > Disaster proofing > >> Explosive video shows > IT services recover > in seconds > > Hmmm... In IE7 I see the above. In Mozilla and Firefox there's a > different graphic in the same spot pointing to a "Fiona Ogre Princess" > video advertising HP multimedia laptops. It only displays under the "Large Enterprise Business" tab and since it looks like the page uses Javascript to switch between what's displayed, if you have Javascript disabled, you won't see it. Clicking on the "Large Enterprise Business" tab doesn't help, since the video isn't being pushed there... Ken ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 15:59:11 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: System Disk ODS2->oDS5 Message-ID: A while back it was pointed out that you had to boot from another device to accomplish this. So my question is this: Can I use the VMS install CD and use the option (8) Execute DCL Commands and procedures for this purpose? -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 04:12:45 GMT From: John Santos Subject: Re: System Disk ODS2->oDS5 Message-ID: <17Fii.3278$bO2.1025@trnddc05> Tom Linden wrote: > A while back it was pointed out that you had to boot from another device to > accomplish this. So my question is this: Can I use the VMS install CD and > use the option (8) Execute DCL Commands and procedures for this purpose? > Sure, that's what the VMS upgrade procedure (option 1) does when it asks if you want to convert an existing system disk to ODS-5. (Okay, I haven't actually tried this except during an upgrade, but if it doesn't work, I would complain like hell to HP.) -- John Santos Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 00:17:49 -0000 From: ultradwc@gmail.com Subject: Re: Updated TCO study has OpenVMS AGAIN over AIX, Slowaris Message-ID: <1183508269.325409.105160@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On Jul 3, 11:46 am, davi...@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > In article <1183474769.136563.82...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, ultra...@gmail.com writes: > >On Jul 3, 10:53 am, JF Mezei wrote: > >> ultra...@gmail.com wrote: > >> > notice the virus/worm downtime ... zero for VMS, not so good for > >> > the others ... sorry Andrew, more proof to validate CERT counts ... > > >> Boob, if the currently vulnerability in POP doesn't make it to CERT, it > >> means that CERT doesn't cover VMS viulnerabilities and hence, you cannot > >> in good conscience claim VMS is more secure because it has no CERT listings. > > >PMDF and TCPware POP have NO vulnerability ... > > And even with DEC TCPIP services implementation of POP. > > The logging of IP addresses can apparently be enabled by defining > TCPIP$POP_LOG_LEVEL to THREAD > The ability to determine whether a username exists or not from the error > message can be controlled by defining > TCPIP$POP_SECURITY to SECURE > > Hence, although one can argue that these should be the defaults and possibly a > setting which records the IP address but less other information than THREAD > should be provided, this part of the problem is down to incorrect > configuration. > > As to Intrusion protection can someone remind me which Unix implementations of > POP servers provide this ? > > David Webb > Security team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University so, JFool did not properly configure the POP server ... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 19:12:16 -0700 From: rtk Subject: Using the game file on OpenVMS Hobbyist page Message-ID: <1183515136.784841.153390@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com> I'm trying to get the games found here: http://www.openvmshobbyist.com/downloads.html to run on my Alpha box. I tried expanding HACK.ZIP, which gives me HACK.BCK but BACKUP insists that it isn't a save set. I'm not sure how to proceed or what I'm missing. Any help appreciated! Ron ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 05:33:16 +0200 From: Ulrich Bellgardt Subject: Re: Using the game file on OpenVMS Hobbyist page Message-ID: rtk wrote: > I'm trying to get the games found here: > > http://www.openvmshobbyist.com/downloads.html > > to run on my Alpha box. I tried expanding HACK.ZIP, which gives me > HACK.BCK but BACKUP insists that it isn't a save set. I'm not sure > how to proceed or what I'm missing. > > Any help appreciated! > > Ron > Somehow the RMS file attributes of HACK.BCK have gone lost on the way into the zip file. After unzipping hack.zip, do $ set file/attr=(rfm:fix,lrl:32256) hack.bck Then the BACKUP program recognises the file as a valid save-set. (Yes, I know there are more sophisticated methods to cleanup the file attributes of BCK save sets, but this one always worked for me and I know it without looking it up somewhere) $ backup/lis hack.bck/sav Listing of save set(s) Save set: HACK.BCK Written by: SMILEY UIC: [000001,000005] Date: 30-JUN-2002 12:44:54.42 Command: BACKUP/FAST/LOG [.HACK]*.* DKA100:[TEMP]HACK.BCK/SAV Operating system: OpenVMS Alpha version V7.2 BACKUP version: AXP72R001 CPU ID register: 80000000 Written on: _DEFCON$DKA100: Block size: 32256 Group size: 10 Buffer count: 67 [GAMES.HACK]HACK.EXE;1 468 12-MAR-1986 14:59 [GAMES.HACK]HACK_TV.EXE;1 [... etc ...] Total of 14 files, 2678 blocks Have fun, -Uli ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.361 ************************