INFO-VAX Thu, 21 Jun 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 336 Contents: Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com actual mention OpenVMS! Application transparent file encryption (supported)? Re: bug in 8.3 html docs Re: bug in 8.3 html docs Re: bug in 8.3 html docs dns woes (ucx5.3, vms 7.3-1) Re: dns woes (ucx5.3, vms 7.3-1) Dynamically loading/unloading libraries (dll/shared libs) Re: Dynamically loading/unloading libraries (dll/shared libs) Re: Dynamically loading/unloading libraries (dll/shared libs) Re: Dynamically loading/unloading libraries (dll/shared libs) Re: host based routing software? Re: host based routing software? Re: If you live in California, get out now! (Part 2) Re: If you live in California, get out now! (Part 2) Re: Itanium hardware Q Re: Itanium hardware Q Re: Mac OS (was: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option) NFS Startup error ? Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: wchar_t confusion Re: Why is SMTP still relevant? Re: Why is SMTP still relevant? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 21 Jun 2007 12:09:57 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com actual mention OpenVMS! Message-ID: <5dv84kF36j5dpU6@mid.individual.net> In article <1182387477.151964.284660@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes: > On Jun 20, 8:47 pm, David J Dachtera > wrote: >> Tom Linden wrote: >> >> > On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 18:45:09 -0700, David J Dachtera >> > wrote: >> >> > >> [snip] Can >> > >> you think of any other business that operates in this fashion? >> > > Government? >> >> > You missed the point, a company has two products, A has 20% margins and >> > sells 100 units >> > B has 10% margin and sells 500 units. >> >> Actually, I think it's more like: >> >> A - 48% margin, 1,000 units >> >> B - 10% margin, 2,000,000 units > > Now ... imagine the huge profit gains from switching even a small > percentage of B systems to A systems! > The only problem with trying to do that is that System A can't do the things System B does. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 09:20:11 -0700 From: Rich Jordan Subject: Application transparent file encryption (supported)? Message-ID: <1182442811.984138.163670@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> I've got a customer who is looking for the ability to encrypt on-disk data files in an application transparent manner; sort of the way some peecee utilities can encrypt an entire disk but apps running on the system are presented with a view of a normal unencrypted filesystem and file data after authenticating. I know about the VMS encryption product, which can provide file encryption and encrypted backups. However the docs imply that encrypting an RMS indexed file would produce a file unusable until its decrypted _outside_ of the application that needs it; the application could not directly use the encrypted file. That would leave cleartext data on disk, which is what we need to avoid. Is there anything currently available (and supported) for VMS on Alpha or itanic? I saw posts by Glenn Everhart mention the possibility of using VDDRIVER to do it but I don't believe thats a supported option (at least not by HP). Thanks for any info. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 08:57:03 -0400 From: Paul Anderson Subject: Re: bug in 8.3 html docs Message-ID: In article , "Tom Linden" wrote: > I was reading up on Ia64 licensing in chapter 3 and noticed > annoyingly that the examples are one long line, the HTML code is > wrong. Did you report this to the documentation group at openvmsdoc@hp.com? Paul -- Paul Anderson OpenVMS Engineering Hewlett-Packard Company ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 06:03:33 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: bug in 8.3 html docs Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 05:57:03 -0700, Paul Anderson wrote: > In article , > "Tom Linden" wrote: > >> I was reading up on Ia64 licensing in chapter 3 and noticed >> annoyingly that the examples are one long line, the HTML code is >> wrong. > > Did you report this to the documentation group at openvmsdoc@hp.com? > > Paul > I have now. -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 06:50:03 -0700 From: DeanW Subject: Re: bug in 8.3 html docs Message-ID: <3f119ada0706210650t311fa1c0r2267d77c36215b8c@mail.gmail.com> On 6/20/07, Tom Linden wrote: > I was reading up on Ia64 licensing in chapter 3 and noticed annoyingly > that the examples are one long line, the HTML code is wrong. Someone with a technical eye could stand to go over the InfoServer stuff as well. For example (V 8.3 Upgrade & Installation Manual, p. 249): $ CREATE/DIRECTORY TCPIP$TFTP_ROOT:[V83] [...] Copy the following two files from the DVD to the TCPIP$TFTP_ROOT:[V083] directory... While that one is obvious, it doesn't lend confidence to someone exploring a topic for the first time. (Forwarded to the doc group) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:37:23 +0100 From: Chris Sharman Subject: dns woes (ucx5.3, vms 7.3-1) Message-ID: We've tried adding our dns server permanently (ucx set route/perm), and temporarily (ucx route add -host). Both work, but neither seems to have a permanent effect on the dynamic db. The route to the dns server seems to get cleared out overnight, at which point everything stops, because reverse lookup stops working. Any suggestions on what we're doing wrong please? I probably haven't supplied enough info, so do please tell me what else you need to know. Thanks Chris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:39:36 GMT From: Chris Sharman Subject: Re: dns woes (ucx5.3, vms 7.3-1) Message-ID: Chris Sharman wrote: > We've tried adding our dns server permanently (ucx set route/perm), and > temporarily (ucx route add -host). > Both work, but neither seems to have a permanent effect on the dynamic db. > The route to the dns server seems to get cleared out overnight, at which > point everything stops, because reverse lookup stops working. > > Any suggestions on what we're doing wrong please? > I probably haven't supplied enough info, so do please tell me what else > you need to know. I could add that the DNS server is not VMS & in the US, and the local machine with the problem is a VMS box in the UK. There's a gateway between the two networks ... Chris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 10:47:52 GMT From: DoubleU Subject: Dynamically loading/unloading libraries (dll/shared libs) Message-ID: Hi all, I need to port a linux application to OpenVMS v. 7.2 (7.3 ?). That application requires the ability to load *and* unload shared libraries (aka. dll's). It uses the dlopen/dlclose/dlsym calls under linux to do that. I found that OpenVMS supports these calls however the docs I found specify something unclear to me : --quote-- There is no way on OpenVMS systems to unload a shareable image dynamically loaded by the LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL routine, which is the routine called by the dlsym function. In other words, there is no way on OpenVMS systems to release the address space occupied by the shareable image brought into memory by dlsym . --unquote-- Is this remark still valid for the version of OpenVMS I would use ? What does it mean ? In what is that behavior different that dlsym under linux ? Could that pose problems if the libraries are loaded/unloaded frequently ? Which Problems ? Any other differences that could cause problems ? Any information would be helpful, Thanx Wim ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 15:32:07 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: Dynamically loading/unloading libraries (dll/shared libs) Message-ID: DoubleU writes: >That application requires the ability to load *and* unload shared >libraries (aka. dll's). It uses the dlopen/dlclose/dlsym calls under >linux to do that. >--quote-- >There is no way on OpenVMS systems to unload a shareable image dynamically >loaded by the LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL routine, which is the routine called >by >the dlsym function. In other words, there is no way on OpenVMS systems to >release the address space occupied by the shareable image brought into >memory by dlsym . >--unquote-- >Is this remark still valid for the version of OpenVMS I would use ? What >does it mean ? In what is that behavior different that dlsym under >linux ? Could that pose problems if the libraries are loaded/unloaded >frequently ? Which Problems ? Any other differences that could cause >problems ? What is the purpose of unloading sharable images? Is it to save memory? If so, it really shouldn't be an issue since the images occupy virtual memory. They may occupy real memory longer than necessary, but will eventually be paged out. If you repeatedly load and unload the same image repeatedly, it may be faster to leave it alone. Bump Pgflquo and the WS* parameters for the account if necessary. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 11:34:32 -0400 From: Stephen Hoffman Subject: Re: Dynamically loading/unloading libraries (dll/shared libs) Message-ID: DoubleU wrote: > Is this [can't unload a shareable, once loaded with lib$find_image_symbol] > remark still valid for the version of OpenVMS I would use ? Yes, the lib$find_image_symbol call can and does permits image activation, and there is and no analogous image "deactivation" and image "unload" mechanism available on OpenVMS. This up through the current V8.3 release, and I'd not expect to see this long-standing behavior changed anything soon. The dlclose should work and should complete successfully as far as the source code is concerned, though it will "leak" address space. > What does it mean ? It means that porting code using system-level calls isn't necessarily a straight port; that there can be differences across systems. It means you can add (to use your terminology) DLLs to your process address space for your running executable, but that you cannot remove them. > In what is that behavior different that dlsym under linux ? I don't know the innards of dlclose on Linux, though the documentation does include dlclose does remove the code, any dependent code, and data. > Could that pose problems if the libraries are loaded/unloaded > frequently ? Unloading the same giblets is not a good idea with OpenVMS. > Which Problems ? A rather open-ended question. > Any other differences that could cause problems ? Again, a rather open-ended question. > Any information would be helpful, Porting C code is a specialty in itself, and rather wider discipline than can be fit into a posting in a newsgroup. Put another way, I generally get paid to answer open-ended questions and to port code; it's often a substantial amount of effort to answer these sorts of open-ended questions. I've ported around enough C code over the years to know that the menu of potentially-relevant weirdnesses is seemingly near-infinite in scope. As for the kernel of your dl-related question, OpenVMS does not permit an application to unload shareable images once activated -- "shareable image" is an OpenVMS analog to the Windows DLL concept, and arguably also the immediate and more flexible predecessor to the Microsoft DLL concept. If you re-open and re-activate a shareable using the same file spec, you should not see a second activation; the activation call should return the path to the existing shareable image, and should return the requested symbol value from the already-mapped and already-activated shareable image. If you use different file specs or should you open a very large number of shareable images, you will eventually likely either exceed an image activation table or you will exceed available process address space. For shareable image information and related background: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/swdev/ovms-shexe-cook.html http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/wiz_2486.html What most folks do is manage the way the images are activated, or the folks expect to have a process restart -- the current process, or a server process that fields the image activation requests -- required after some application-specific numbers of image activations. As for one general recommendation, get to at least the V7.3-2 and preferably to the current V8.3 release. C calls have been added into the OpenVMS standard C libraries over time, and newer OpenVMS releases will generally have increasingly wider sets of calls when compared to the older releases. Put another way, the further back you go in time from the current release, the more effort you'll tend to have when porting code. Hoff -- www.HoffmanLabs.com Services for OpenVMS ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 15:57:43 +0000 (UTC) From: m.kraemer@gsi.de (Michael Kraemer) Subject: Re: Dynamically loading/unloading libraries (dll/shared libs) Message-ID: In article , moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes: > What is the purpose of unloading sharable images? Is it to save memory? Of course I can only speculate what the OP has in mind, but one conceivable usage of dlopen() & friends is to allow bigger applications to attach user-built code, without the need to recompile and relink. (at least this is what I am using it for) I.e user compiles and links his "applet" and big application calls it via a well-defined (!) function interface. When user wishes to load a new version of his stuff, he must be sure that indeed the new code is loaded, and not some memory-resident copy be reused, hence the need for a complete unload. So it is not quite the aspect of a "shareable image" but rather the capability to dynamically link and unlink code to a running application. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 13:11:12 +0100 From: Anton Shterenlikht Subject: Re: host based routing software? Message-ID: <20070621121112.GB75660@mech-aslap33.men.bris.ac.uk> On Wed, Jun 13, 2007 at 11:31:55AM -0400, Stephen Hoffman wrote: > Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > > >I wonder if I do have a license for this [DECnet routing] software or not. > >Does anybody know how it is called, so I can check it with SHOW LIC. > >I'd like to have a cluster alias, but not sure if this software is > >included in the vmsedu license. > > DVNETRTG is the full-function DECnet routing license. > > DVNETEXT is the license for DECnet cluster aliases, and this license > is a subset of the DVNETRG license. Thanks a lot. I haven't got the full-function, but have the extended and the end-node: $ show lic *dvn* Active licenses on node DS10L: ------- Product ID -------- ---- Rating ----- -- Version -- Product Producer Units Avail Activ Version Release Termination DVNETEND DEC 0 0 100 0.0 31-AUG-2007 31-AUG-2007 DVNETEXT DEC 0 0 100 0.0 31-AUG-2007 31-AUG-2007 $ The lack of license was just my guess. Since I configured my ds10l as a cluster router I keep getting this message on OPCOM about every second: %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 21-JUN-2007 11:59:24.00 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user SYSTEM on DS10L Event: Carrier Check Failure from: Node LOCAL:.ZEEV CSMA-CD Station CSMACD-1, at: 2007-06-21-11:59:24.006+00:00Iinf eventUid DA56ABBE-1FEE-11DC-A12A-08002B874231 entityUid 94BD88F8-19AE-11DC-83C5-AA0004000104 streamUid 9851998B-19AE-11DC-846E-AA0004000104 Perhaps I made some errors in SYS$MANAGER:ISIS$CONFIGURE.COM. I think CSMACD-1 was defined there. Anyway, I need to do more reading. > > The upper-end NAS (NET-APP-SUP) licenses can provide extra DECnet > features, if you do not have DVNETEXT or DVNETRTG, look for a > NET-APP-SUP license PAK and then check the internal tables for what is > permitted. (search sys$update:vmsinstal_groups.com net-app command > implies it's NET-APP-SUP-300 and up that have this.) no, haven't got this one > OpenVMS Licensing Intro > http://64.223.189.234/node/31 > > OpenVMS DECnet, DECnet-Plus Management, Troubleshooting > http://64.223.189.234/node/61 that's very helpful, thank you. I'm also reading the FAQ, chapter 15, Networks and Clusters -- Anton Shterenlikht Room 2.6, Queen's Building Mech Eng Dept Bristol University University Walk, Bristol BS8 1TR, UK Tel: +44 (0)117 928 8233 Fax: +44 (0)117 929 4423 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 10:58:02 -0400 From: Stephen Hoffman Subject: Re: host based routing software? Message-ID: Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > Product Producer Units Avail Activ Version Release Termination > DVNETEND DEC 0 0 100 0.0 31-AUG-2007 31-AUG-2007 > > DVNETEXT DEC 0 0 100 0.0 31-AUG-2007 31-AUG-2007 You have cluster alias capabilities. Not DECnet routing. I did ask for the routing PAK as part of the hobbyist program and AFAIK that addition to the program was cleared -- haven't checked the list of PAKs to see if the DVNETRTG PAK was then added to the Hobbyist PAK collection. (I'm assuming you're either Edu or Hobbyist here, as most commercial sites would have one of DVNETEND, DVNETEXT or DVNETRTG, and not a combination of these licenses.) > The lack of license was just my guess. Since I configured my ds10l as a > cluster router I keep getting this message on OPCOM about every second: FWIW, license errors are reported as license errors. Making the license error obscure would cost HP money in terms of support and in terms of customers needing extra help to figure out they needed to purchase a higher-end license, so there's incentive to make these sorts of LMF-related and PAK-related errors rather clear. Details on finding which PAKs are checked by a product are listed in the OpenVMS FAQ (there's a logical name LMF$DISPLAY_OPCOM_MESSAGE), and there are introductory materials for LMF (including the logical name) posted at the new HoffmanLabs site. http://64.223.189.234/node/118 > %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 21-JUN-2007 11:59:24.00 %%%%%%%%%%% > Message from user SYSTEM on DS10L > Event: Carrier Check Failure from: Node LOCAL:.ZEEV CSMA-CD Station CSMACD-1, > at: 2007-06-21-11:59:24.006+00:00Iinf > eventUid DA56ABBE-1FEE-11DC-A12A-08002B874231 > entityUid 94BD88F8-19AE-11DC-83C5-AA0004000104 > streamUid 9851998B-19AE-11DC-846E-AA0004000104 > > Perhaps I made some errors in SYS$MANAGER:ISIS$CONFIGURE.COM. I think > CSMACD-1 was defined there. That carrier check error usually a cabling error, a bad or mis-set transceiver, or a network short or network disconnection. Can't say I've seen a configuration-level error trigger this (well, barring cases where there are multiple NICs and less than all of them are connected, and when one that's not connected to the LAN is lit up for use), but I don't know what was changed in your environment. As for config errors, the usual approach is to back out your changes, or to punt and re-run the configuration tool. -- www.HoffmanLabs.com Services for OpenVMS ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jun 2007 12:04:34 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: If you live in California, get out now! (Part 2) Message-ID: In article , "Tom Linden" writes: > > That is almost Russell's paradox. Who shall cast the last stone? Oh, that one is easy: the last fellow just has to throw it straight up. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jun 2007 12:06:53 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: If you live in California, get out now! (Part 2) Message-ID: In article , "P. Sture" writes: > > 'You may have been told that "thou" and "thee" were for familiar use, > and "you" and "ye" were formal. This was not true originally, but it was > true for about two centuries, roughly 1450-1650, including Shakespeare's > time. The previously plural "you" was used in the singular to signify > politeness and respect, which left "thou" and "thee" for all the other > singular uses, ranging from endearing intimacy to bitter rudeness. > Eventually, the politer "you" drove out nearly all uses of "thee" and > "thou"; they survived mostly in poetry and religion.' Except that there's a very good reason to believe that "you" is just a misreading of "thou" spelt with a thorn. Folks not familiar with the letter thorn often mistake it for Y. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 06:24:27 -0700 From: DeanW Subject: Re: Itanium hardware Q Message-ID: <3f119ada0706210624u67fe6e3cr3de73ce25fdcc6f1@mail.gmail.com> On 6/18/07, DeanW wrote: > A customer just took delivery of an RX3600, which has no DVD drive. Updated... First, we finally got them to talk to the HP sales rep, who admitted it should have had a DVD in it. They're going to send one out overnight- which means we'll get it (with luck) Friday. I am so glad the actual conversion is 99% "compile and go". Not unexpectedly, VMS failed to boot from two different external USB drives. I took my RX2600 box in and set it up as an InfoServer (Yay for learning experiences), which is probably viable but doesn't currently work. I can connect to it, specifiy the service, and load about 16K blocks off the served disk (or 48k blocks directly off the DVD), then it stalls for no visible reason. I'll revisit the InfoServer idea for potential use in another project where we may be rolling out 30+ machines; meanwhile, we're moving on to working on our software until the DVD drive comes in. We could do most of the work on my 2600 and backup / restore it on the customer's box when it comes in, but their policy doesn't allow machines not owned by them to attach to their network for fear of virii being brought in. (Everyone knows that VMS isn't an issue, including the person who sits in the office that says "IT director", but nobody will make a policy exception. *sigh*, government... ) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 13:39:45 -0400 From: Forrest Kenney Subject: Re: Itanium hardware Q Message-ID: <467AB7E1.611AFC7B@hp.com> DeanW wrote: > > On 6/18/07, DeanW wrote: > > A customer just took delivery of an RX3600, which has no DVD drive. > > Updated... First, we finally got them to talk to the HP sales rep, who > admitted it should have had a DVD in it. They're going to send one out > overnight- which means we'll get it (with luck) Friday. I am so glad > the actual conversion is 99% "compile and go". > > Not unexpectedly, VMS failed to boot from two different external USB drives. > Can you give a little more detail about failed to boot. What were the drive models. Did the DVD show up at all at the EFI shell level. If you got past that where in the installation did it get stuck. It would be helpful to know. We are trying to make make the code more robust and reports of problems help. Forrest Kenney OpenVMS > I took my RX2600 box in and set it up as an InfoServer (Yay for > learning experiences), which is probably viable but doesn't currently > work. I can connect to it, specifiy the service, and load about 16K > blocks off the served disk (or 48k blocks directly off the DVD), then > it stalls for no visible reason. > > I'll revisit the InfoServer idea for potential use in another project > where we may be rolling out 30+ machines; meanwhile, we're moving on > to working on our software until the DVD drive comes in. We could do > most of the work on my 2600 and backup / restore it on the customer's > box when it comes in, but their policy doesn't allow machines not > owned by them to attach to their network for fear of virii being > brought in. (Everyone knows that VMS isn't an issue, including the > person who sits in the office that says "IT director", but nobody will > make a policy exception. *sigh*, government... ) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 12:04:41 -0400 From: Stephen Hoffman Subject: Re: Mac OS (was: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option) Message-ID: AEF wrote: > On Jun 20, 9:37 pm, JF Mezei wrote: >> I too am setting up a new mac with OS-X and it is quite the learning >> curve and headaches since Apple decided to widthdraw support for >> Appletalk and I cannot copy files from my 8.6 system to the new system, >> and the user interface between 8.6 and 10.x is akin to decwindows and >> CDE. One was very simple and easily customisable to fit your >> organisational needs, the other is cute, but a lot harder to customise >> and much less natural to use. I'd be quite happy to transfer your files forward, and to provide you with a three-button mouse, and to deal with your desktop configuration and networking issues. Mac OS 8.6? Mac OS X (Tiger 10.4.10) is current. Mac OS 9 pre-dates the integration of the NeXT stuff; Mac 8.6 and Mac OS 9 are descended from software rather older than the rebuilt Mac OS kernel that arrived with Mac OS X. It's like OpenVMS VAX, in terms of OpenVMS -- or like what OpenVMS on Mach might have looked like, to connect with another recent discussion. >> Now, having clicked on the wrong button, I have set it to use my mouse's >> button as the main button... but my mouse has only one button and it has >> rendered the system useless. Send it along; I'll take the "useless" box off your hands. :-) > So hook up a two-button mouse. My Mac friend here at work says you > just plug it in and he was using one on his Mac laptop and it worked > fine. I've a left-handed USB wireless mouse (Logitech MX610) working just fine with Mac OS X Tiger. Ok, so the extra custom launch and mail buttons on the MX610 don't work, but the three classic main buttons all work just fine. Much like the OpenVMS system hardware interfaces, the USB mice tend to be interchangeable. As for your current system, you use Cmd-Click or Ctrl-Click, depending on the context. The mouse-button chords are likely also how you can get out of your current button configuration mistake. And FWIW, the One-Button-Mouse-Whinge is a classic Newbie Apple Whinging Mistake. It's been done. :-) -- www.HoffmanLabs.com Services for OpenVMS ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 06:19:07 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: NFS Startup error ? Message-ID: <1c0e6$467a50af$cef8887a$26108@TEKSAVVY.COM> VMS 8.3 Alpha. TCPIP Services 5.6 After an enable service NFS : (many opcom messages about related things) %%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 21-JUN-2007 06:02:52.88 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user INTERnet on CHAIN INTERnet ACP Activate NFS Server $ %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 21-JUN-2007 06:02:52.88 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user INTERnet on CHAIN INTERnet ACP NOLISTEN Process creation success: Service - NFS $ %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 21-JUN-2007 06:02:53.74 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user NFS Server on CHAIN Process 00100073 configured as an NFS server $ %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 21-JUN-2007 06:02:53.74 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user TCPIP$NFS on CHAIN NFS memory (000B4000) at system virtual FFFFFFFF7DDA0000, user virtual 000000000 03EE000 There is TCPIP$NFS_x process still running. The opcom message appears before the MAC even tries to connect. Is this some error/warning ? Or just a normal happening ? Mr Google made a vague reference to GH_EXEC_DATA being too low. (mine is at the default 512 pages). Is this something that needs to be changed (with reboot required) ? Or is it a waste of time because NFS wonm't work anyways because MAC OS (10.4.9) is incompatible with the software on VMS ? I also tried to connect to an FTP file system from the MAC, and while some FTP connection appears to be made, it is quickly killed. Anyone had any success with that ? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 09:07:06 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: In article , Robert Deininger wrote: > In article <5845$4679bb48$cef8887a$10787@TEKSAVVY.COM>, > JF Mezei wrote: > > > Main, Kerry wrote: > > > HP OpenVMS has long been known as the "gold`standard" for > > > disaster-tolerance1 and has long been hailed in the industry for its > > > security and reliability. > > > > Unfortunatly, its owner refruses to hail it. Refuses to market it and > > expects the remaining customers to migrate FROM it. > > > > > > > That has now changed. In a successful and dramatic demonstration of the > > > disaster-tolerant capabilities of OpenVMS, Hewlett-Packard set up > > > > At the same time as Livermore has basically admitted VMS has no future > > and they want customers to migrate FROM VMS. > > Wow! How predictable!! But a bit slow. I expected you to offer some > bad news in under 13 seconds. :-( > > But I'm happy! I'm setting up my brand new Macintosh (replacing my > 12-year old one). I'm setting up a new news client application. > > I FINALLY have killfile support!! > > Oh Happy Day!! "User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.5.2 (Intel Mac OS X)" An excellent choice IMHO :-) -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 12:07:15 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: In article , Chris Sharman writes: > > >VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> To view the HP-ETV, you must have browser Cookies enabled, Macromedia Flash Player, >> and a supported Browser/Operating System/Media Player configuration. >> >> For additional system requirements and further help, Click Here... >> >> >> Which yeilds: >> >> Q: What do I need to view this site? >> A: Your computer must meet the following requirements to successfully view this site: >> Operating System Requirements >> Microsoft Windows XP (SP1, SP2), 2000, 98 (SE) OR Macintosh OSX >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^-- got this >> Browser Requirements >> For PC users we recommend the latest versions of: Internet Explorer, FireFox, >> Mozilla OR Netscape >> For Mac users we recommend the latest versions of: Safari, FireFox OR Mozilla >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^-----^^^^^^-- got this >> Media Player Requirements >> Windows Media Player 9+(for PC IE users) OR Macromedia Flash 7.0.25 > >Good job I didn't read this rubbish. Worked fine on Ubuntu 6.10 + >Firefox 2.0.0.4 Is it another Micro$hit video format in a wrapper? If so, I won't be able to watch it. If I can't watch it, I won't inform others to watch it. If others don't see it, the message is lost. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 05:22:10 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: <1182428530.388330.175080@n60g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On Jun 20, 9:37 pm, JF Mezei wrote: > Robert Deininger wrote: > > I FINALLY have killfile support!! > > I too am setting up a new mac with OS-X and it is quite the learning > curve and headaches since Apple decided to widthdraw support for > Appletalk and I cannot copy files from my 8.6 system to the new system, > and the user interface between 8.6 and 10.x is akin to decwindows and > CDE. One was very simple and easily customisable to fit your > organisational needs, the other is cute, but a lot harder to customise > and much less natural to use. > > Now, having clicked on the wrong button, I have set it to use my mouse's > button as the main button... but my mouse has only one button and it has > rendered the system useless. So hook up a two-button mouse. My Mac friend here at work says you just plug it in and he was using one on his Mac laptop and it worked fine. [...] AEF ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:15:20 +0100 From: Tom Wade Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: <3zwei.20461$j7.377788@news.indigo.ie> IanMiller wrote: > I also though it interesting that the non-stop system took longer than > VMS to failover. > > The linux platform was the slowest [except for the fish] On the other hand, the fish outscore linux on user friendliness, total cost of ownership, and the ease of communicating with humans. --------------------------------------------------------- Tom Wade | EMail: tee dot wade at eurokom dot ie EuroKom | Tel: +353 (1) 296-9696 A2, Nutgrove Office Park | Fax: +353 (1) 296-9697 Rathfarnham | Disclaimer: This is not a disclaimer Dublin 14 | Tip: "Friends don't let friends do Unix !" Ireland ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 10:52:56 -0700 From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: <1182448376.315081.3990@n60g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On Jun 20, 9:37 pm, JF Mezei wrote: > > I too am setting up a new mac with OS-X and it is quite the learning > curve and headaches since Apple decided to widthdraw support for > Appletalk and I cannot copy files from my 8.6 system to the new system, > and the user interface between 8.6 and 10.x is akin to decwindows and > CDE. One was very simple and easily customisable to fit your > organisational needs, the other is cute, but a lot harder to customise > and much less natural to use. > Yeah. There have been a LOT of complaints about that. I'll even agree with some of them. The new "Finder" in OS X 10.5 is supposed to fix at least some of these problems. Though I finally upgraded from an OS 9 system to OS X 10.4 last year without too much problem. Now all I have left in the Windows area is my wife's PC (I'm working on that) and a Windows 2000 server that I share files on and have to keep because its required to administer my HP EVA5000 SAN storage controllers. > Now, having clicked on the wrong button, I have set it to use my mouse's > button as the main button... but my mouse has only one button and it has > rendered the system useless. > How new is this "new" Mac? Unless its a Mac Mini (which you have to provide your own keyboard and mouse) you should have at least a 2- button mouse. Apple hasn't packaged a 1-button mouse with a Mac in years now. I didn't even know you could get a 1-button USB mouse (it has to be a USB mouse since Apple dropped the ADB interface several generations of systems ago. None of the ADB Mac are even supported for OS X anymore as far as I know). John H. Reinhardt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 09:21:15 -0700 From: roger tucker Subject: Re: wchar_t confusion Message-ID: <1182442875.787983.68930@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com> Interesting... When the compiler is reading the literal L"=E4" and widens it; it sign extends it. The assembler also shows this. Use / LIST/MACHINE then look at the $DATA$ section. compare $$1 with $$2. There is a lot of talk about this on the web; I googled "wchar_t literal". This is a tricky subject. I fixed the problem using wchar_t wstr[2] =3D { 0xe5, 0 }; If I understand this issue correctly, (and I didn't have time to research it much), the question comes down to "is the C source file in 7 bit ascii, 8 bit ascii or some other character set" and how does it know which one so it can handle litterals correctly. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jun 2007 12:08:49 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Why is SMTP still relevant? Message-ID: <5dv82hF36j5dpU5@mid.individual.net> In article , Tad Winters writes: > Ron Johnson wrote in > news:fnwdi.147873$NK5.83353@newsfe23.lga: > >> On 06/18/07 04:39, John Wallace wrote: >>> "Ron Johnson" wrote in message >>> news:p50di.582903$2Q1.250900@newsfe16.lga... >>>> On 06/16/07 20:04, Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>>> [snip] >>>>> So, what is the technological solution? >>>> Hardened operating systems and some sort of email-account >>>> pre-registration with organizations that issue web-of-trust PGP/GPG >>>> digital signatures. Every user would need to think of a strong >>>> passphrase before being allowed to send email. All emails would >>>> have to be signed. Using computers and the internet would become >>>> *much* more complicated and usage would plummet. >>>> >>>> Computers would then only be used by geeks and other sundry >>>> propeller-heads and technophiles. Life will be good again! >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Ron Johnson, Jr. >>>> Jefferson LA USA >>> >>> (long post, sorry) >>> >>> You just (almost) described some of the attributes of an X.400 >>> standards-based secure email system, at least as I used to understand >>> them some considerable time ago. Apart from the complexity bit of >>> course; internal complexity does not necessarily have to be exposed >>> to the user or (mostly) to the administrator (VMS is a prime >>> example). >>> >> [snip] >>> >>> Anyone care to enlighten me as to why a "paradigm shift" (ouch) to >>> X.400 isn't the answer and band-aids are? I do realise that such a >>> shift wouldn't take place overnight and that interoperability tools >>> would be needed (which is fine, they existed years ago). I also >>> realise there is a whole SMTP-dependent ecosystem out there, from >>> mailserver vendors to band-aid vendors to ISPs to spammers and more, >>> whose interests will not be best served if the underlying mail system >>> suddenly loses the vulnerabilities on which their commercial >>> activities depend, and there are staff who won't want their SMTP >>> skills to become irrelevant, but is this really the main reason SMTP >>> survives well beyond its "use by" date? There's also the "not >>> invented here" factor, X.400 didn't come from the Internerd/RFC >>> community, it came from those nasty telco folks, but twenty-odd years >>> later doesn't the reality look like the telcos may have been the ones >>> going the right way, maybe they were just a bit before the cheap >>> computing power (and bandwidth) was available? >> >> Installed base. There are a *lot* of SMTP servers out there. >> > > No problem. Use both methods until you're satisfied that SMTP isn't > providing sufficient value after including the costs of filtering it, > then you're dealing exclusively with the improved system. Which is basicly what I suggested with my proposal when people said "you can't just jump in and replace SMTP". bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:35:31 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: Why is SMTP still relevant? Message-ID: In article <5dv82hF36j5dpU5@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >In article , > Tad Winters writes: >> Ron Johnson wrote in >> news:fnwdi.147873$NK5.83353@newsfe23.lga: >> >>> On 06/18/07 04:39, John Wallace wrote: >>>> "Ron Johnson" wrote in message >>>> news:p50di.582903$2Q1.250900@newsfe16.lga... >>>>> On 06/16/07 20:04, Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>>>> [snip] >>>>>> So, what is the technological solution? >>>>> Hardened operating systems and some sort of email-account >>>>> pre-registration with organizations that issue web-of-trust PGP/GPG >>>>> digital signatures. Every user would need to think of a strong >>>>> passphrase before being allowed to send email. All emails would >>>>> have to be signed. Using computers and the internet would become >>>>> *much* more complicated and usage would plummet. >>>>> >>>>> Computers would then only be used by geeks and other sundry >>>>> propeller-heads and technophiles. Life will be good again! >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Ron Johnson, Jr. >>>>> Jefferson LA USA >>>> >>>> (long post, sorry) >>>> >>>> You just (almost) described some of the attributes of an X.400 >>>> standards-based secure email system, at least as I used to understand >>>> them some considerable time ago. Apart from the complexity bit of >>>> course; internal complexity does not necessarily have to be exposed >>>> to the user or (mostly) to the administrator (VMS is a prime >>>> example). >>>> >>> [snip] >>>> >>>> Anyone care to enlighten me as to why a "paradigm shift" (ouch) to >>>> X.400 isn't the answer and band-aids are? I do realise that such a >>>> shift wouldn't take place overnight and that interoperability tools >>>> would be needed (which is fine, they existed years ago). I also >>>> realise there is a whole SMTP-dependent ecosystem out there, from >>>> mailserver vendors to band-aid vendors to ISPs to spammers and more, >>>> whose interests will not be best served if the underlying mail system >>>> suddenly loses the vulnerabilities on which their commercial >>>> activities depend, and there are staff who won't want their SMTP >>>> skills to become irrelevant, but is this really the main reason SMTP >>>> survives well beyond its "use by" date? There's also the "not >>>> invented here" factor, X.400 didn't come from the Internerd/RFC >>>> community, it came from those nasty telco folks, but twenty-odd years >>>> later doesn't the reality look like the telcos may have been the ones >>>> going the right way, maybe they were just a bit before the cheap >>>> computing power (and bandwidth) was available? >>> >>> Installed base. There are a *lot* of SMTP servers out there. >>> >> >> No problem. Use both methods until you're satisfied that SMTP isn't >> providing sufficient value after including the costs of filtering it, >> then you're dealing exclusively with the improved system. > >Which is basicly what I suggested with my proposal when people >said "you can't just jump in and replace SMTP". > When X400 first came out there was a possibility that given strong government backing and the smaller size of the internet at that time (+ the internal usage of a number of non SMTP based mail systems) that it might supersede SMTP. (and indeed that OSI based applications might replace all of the TCPIP based applications). That didn't happen. SMTP is much more firmly entrenched now. Also the supposed advantages of X400 can be provided through modern extensions to SMTP eg TLS without throwing out peoples current investment in SMTP. David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University >bill > >-- >Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves >bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. >University of Scranton | >Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.336 ************************