INFO-VAX Thu, 10 May 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 256 Contents: Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Re: creating IA64 PAKs on Alpha Re: creating IA64 PAKs on Alpha Re: creating IA64 PAKs on Alpha Re: creating IA64 PAKs on Alpha Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE)) Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE)) Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE)) Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE)) IDE)) Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE)) IDE)) Disabling scp and sftp on ssh-server? Re: earthquake hits Montana! Re: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? GNV cc -L doesn't work Re: GNV cc -L doesn't work Itanic multi-core vs. multi-CPU SMP Re: PID for detached process. Re: PID for detached process. Re: PID for detached process. Re: PID for detached process. Re: PID for detached process. Re: PID for detached process. Remote IDE (Was: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris I Samba 2.2.8 vs CIFS Evaluation Release 3 Re: SET CONF SMTP/QUEUES Re: SET CONF SMTP/QUEUES Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Re: VMS Upgrade via ESS$INFOSERVER? XFS Re: XFS Xyratex F5402E on OpenVMS??? [OpenVMS V8.3] VMS Upgrade via ESS$INFOSERVER? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 13:21:21 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Message-ID: In article <1178732104.427768.224880@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, jbigboote writes: >On May 9, 10:57 am, JF Mezei wrote: >> Larry Kilgallen wrote: >.... >> >> Also, do not forget that Cerner has a deal where cerner customers can >> contiune to purchase Alpha systems for the foreseable future. > >Too bad Cerner decided to drop VMS and replace it with HP-UX. If I'm >an existing Cerner client looking to port from VMS, and my choices are >AIX or HP-UX, why would I choose HP-UX? Maybe because I already have >Alpha servers, which can run HP-UX, When did that happen ????? !!!!! :) HP-UX runs on PA-RISC it has never run on Alpha. HP's commercial Unix which runs on Alpha is Tru64 which HP decided was going to die with Alpha quite sometime ago. David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University >but sooner or later you'll have to >move to Itanium, and then you'll have to port again, no? >And if I'm going to buy new hardware, I might as well go with IBM, who >for better or worse have done fairly well with AIX and the POWER >platform, and appear poised to continue doing so for the foreseeable >future. I administer both AIX and VMS systems, and I can say that in >the last 18 or so months getting support for VMS software and Alpha >hardware has become noticeably more irksome. > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 09:31:12 -0400 From: "David Turner, Island Computers" Subject: Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Message-ID: Maybe next year ! DT "JF Mezei" wrote in message news:8431d$464267fa$cef8887a$2277@TEKSAVVY.COM... > David Turner, Island Computers US Corp wrote: >> Well, good news is it has picked up this week >> bad news is we are still down about 30% over last year. >> There are some very tasty deals to be had right now. > > Does this mean you will soon start to draw free ES45s to be won by someone > in the comp.os.vms.community ? :-) :-) :-) ------------------------------ Date: 10 May 2007 08:22:12 -0700 From: Rich Jordan Subject: Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Message-ID: <1178810532.838092.254110@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> On May 9, 6:57 pm, "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" wrote: > Well, good news is it has picked up this week > bad news is we are still down about 30% over last year. > There are some very tasty deals to be had right now. > > DT > Care to post some tasty deals? No promises but I can always nudge my boss with the info. Or you can email back if you prefer not to post to the group. Nothing bigger than a DS25 though; my customers are small sites. BTW are there any small (desktop size) enclosures that take the Compaq/ HP Storageworks universal disks? And if so do you have them? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 13:11:49 +0300 From: "Guy Peleg" Subject: Re: creating IA64 PAKs on Alpha Message-ID: <4642e387$0$23226$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> wrote in message news:00A675DA.62D7BB5F@SendSpamHere.ORG... > Is there a PAKGEN update which will recognise the IA64 option for Alpha? > > I know a party that has no in house Itanium box but needs to create PAKs > for an Itanium product they sell. Yes it is possible. Must be running at least OpenVMS V7.3-2. They need to contact HP to get a new PAKGEN license (via DSPP). Guy > > -- > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker > VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't i -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ------------------------------ Date: 10 May 2007 04:13:32 -0700 From: David B Sneddon Subject: Re: creating IA64 PAKs on Alpha Message-ID: <1178795612.077837.179970@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On May 10, 6:11 pm, "Guy Peleg" wrote: > wrote in message > > news:00A675DA.62D7BB5F@SendSpamHere.ORG... > > > Is there a PAKGEN update which will recognise the IA64 option for Alpha? > > > I know a party that has no in house Itanium box but needs to create PAKs > > for an Itanium product they sell. > > Yes it is possible. Must be running at least OpenVMS V7.3-2. They need to > contact HP to get a new PAKGEN license (via DSPP). > > Guy A new PAKGEN PAK is *NOT* required (in my experience). The problem is the seemingly deliberate prevention of the task via the CLD on the Alpha. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 11:42:30 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: creating IA64 PAKs on Alpha Message-ID: <00A6765F.3A572E13@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article <1178760807.008153.310520@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, David B Sneddon writes: > > >On May 9, 7:51 pm, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> Is there a PAKGEN update which will recognise the IA64 option for Alpha? >> >> I know a party that has no in house Itanium box but needs to create PAKs >> for an Itanium product they sell. >> >> -- >> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >> >> "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" > > >The CLD on Alpha is deliberately broken to prevent the generation >of IA64 PAKs. Grab a copy of the CLD from an IA64 box and use >that one (SET COMMAND) on the Alpha to generate what you need. > >I had the same problem and checked the source for the CLDs and >have been using this method for quite a while now. > >I can only assume the "reason" for this was to try to force >people to buy an IA64 just to generate PAKs. I used VERB on my Alpha and extracted LICENSE.CLD. I found the following: define type OPTIONS_KEYWORDS : : keyword PPL keyword IA64 keyword IA64_ALPHA keyword IA64_ALPHA_VAX keyword PCL So, as you might imagine, I was perplexed that when I went to execute: $ LICENSE GENERATE .../OPTION=IA64... I would still get an error. I didn't look far enough down the LICENSE.CLD file. Down near the end of the file, was the problem: disallow (GENERATE and (OPTIONS.IA64 or OPTIONS.PPL or OPTIONS.IA64_ALPHA or OPTIONS.IA64_ALPHA_VAX)) -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 08:11:35 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: creating IA64 PAKs on Alpha Message-ID: On Thu, 10 May 2007 04:13:32 -0700, David B Sneddon wrote: > On May 10, 6:11 pm, "Guy Peleg" > wrote: >> wrote in message >> >> news:00A675DA.62D7BB5F@SendSpamHere.ORG... >> >> > Is there a PAKGEN update which will recognise the IA64 option for >> Alpha? >> >> > I know a party that has no in house Itanium box but needs to create >> PAKs >> > for an Itanium product they sell. >> >> Yes it is possible. Must be running at least OpenVMS V7.3-2. They need >> to >> contact HP to get a new PAKGEN license (via DSPP). >> >> Guy > > A new PAKGEN PAK is *NOT* required (in my experience). > The problem is the seemingly deliberate prevention of the > task via the CLD on the Alpha. So how do you do it with existing pakgen? > > Dave > -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: 10 May 2007 07:44:43 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris Message-ID: <0Je1ghw6Zulr@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <4641cec6$1@news.post.ch>, Martin Krischik writes: > > And how many years did you work on your "personal interface to Eve" > until it was as perfect as it is. While I wrote most of it the first few months after Eve first shipped, I am not and will never be afraid to add some small detail. > Or more importantly: how powerfully is Eve without it! It is a sad truth > that "the younger" are often presented with an empty sys$login to start > with it. And then an old timer tells them to start eve and forgets to > mention /INTERFACE=DECWINDOWS. I never "override" standard DCL commands in a sylogin or template sys$login. Newbies should see VMS behave as documented and then add stuff on top of that. I do provide template login.com which adds stuff that doesn't look like standard DCL commands. And I still find LEARN to have great power that I can emulate, but not actually find, in emacs or vi, even without my interface. I tried writing my interface for emacs, but found the emacs developers don't know jack about upward compatability. Other editors I've just seen cited in this thread are much more friendly than vi, but less powerfull. It's amaizing what the uneducated think is good stuff. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 18:58:21 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE)) Message-ID: Hi Martin, > PS: Ruby for VMS is quite nice :-). And I assume we also have RoR, or is that still in perennial catchup phase? Wow this should bring a few thousand Solaris sites over to VMS - whaddaya reakon? I don't understand Ruby (obviously Ruby is not alone in that regard :-) On first read it looked to me as some bright spark's idea of a OO replacement for SQL. Me? I like SQL to access a "relational" database, there are just 1 or 2 lines of SQL out there in existance, and if you can't program in it then I suggest you move slowly away from the keyboard. (Maybe they're not Rows and Columns with Attributes after all? Maybe they're Objects with triggers and stored procedures as methods? I'm sure our users will understand the inner turmoil we're going through - it's about "how we do it" and not about "results". Where I've been, the days of entire IT departments full of navel-gazing fortune tellers trying out all the new toys are long gone - Maybe you've been luckier? (I know a big chunk of VMS engineering certainly has)) As for "never repeating yourself" or whatever the Ruby mantra is that is analogous to "seperating form and function" or "a non-procedural install utility" all I can say is "Who gives a shit?". I am nothing if not repetitious in my monotonous drone. (And loving it!) Anyway, I'm certainly looking forward to .NET for VMS, and am confident that there's no shortage of blood sucking leaches in Nashua (or Bombay?) just waiting to start invoicing for that port. Whatever happened to COM+ eh? Cheers Richard Maher PS. I put my VMS-flippers on now every time I touch the keyboard just to remind me where we're going. (Oh, and a hair-shirts as penance for where we've been) "Martin Krischik" wrote in message news:4642e01b$1@news.post.ch... > Richard Maher schrieb: > > PS. What was it again that the guy from Apple was saying about Java and why > > he's not supporting it on his phones? Microsoft's finished with Java, > > Apple's finished with Java, Digital embraces Java and once again > > bets-the-farm (or the customer's farm). Yep, very brave indeed! > > http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm > > Of course the nice thing about Tiobe is: You can read the statistic any > way you like. In case of Java: > > 1) Java is #1 and 4% ahead of Nr. 2. > 2) Java is loosing ground by 2% in one year. > > Martin > > PS: Ruby for VMS is quite nice :-). > -- > Martin Krischik ------------------------------ Date: 10 May 2007 07:48:15 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE)) Message-ID: In article , "Richard Maher" writes: > > There's a guy I know in London that still keeps copying stuff to LSE on VMS > 'cos he can't bring himself to use (vi?) on Unix. Personally, I think it > would be great if "young" developers used a PC or Unix-based IDE and then > deployed on VMS! Digital doesn't have to waste time and effort trying to > develop a genre of software that they're demonstrably no good at, and VMS > get's to host the final product (or at least some part of it). I call that a > win-win situation. Digital doesn't have time to waste doing anything since it doesn't exist. But they were never particularly fantastic hardware builders, we bought their systems because their software was so good. That's a market lead they should have never strayed from, but never recognised. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 07:09:31 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE)) Message-ID: On Thu, 10 May 2007 05:48:15 -0700, Bob Koehler wrote: > In article , "Richard Maher" > writes: >> >> There's a guy I know in London that still keeps copying stuff to LSE on >> VMS >> 'cos he can't bring himself to use (vi?) on Unix. Personally, I think it >> would be great if "young" developers used a PC or Unix-based IDE and >> then >> deployed on VMS! Digital doesn't have to waste time and effort trying to >> develop a genre of software that they're demonstrably no good at, and >> VMS >> get's to host the final product (or at least some part of it). I call >> that a >> win-win situation. > > Digital doesn't have time to waste doing anything since it doesn't > exist. But they were never particularly fantastic hardware builders, > we bought their systems because their software was so good. That's > a market lead they should have never strayed from, but never > recognised. > I think it still exists as a legal entity, at least it did about 5 years ago. -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 11:04:27 +0200 From: Martin Krischik Subject: Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE)) IDE)) Message-ID: <4642e01b$1@news.post.ch> Richard Maher schrieb: > PS. What was it again that the guy from Apple was saying about Java and why > he's not supporting it on his phones? Microsoft's finished with Java, > Apple's finished with Java, Digital embraces Java and once again > bets-the-farm (or the customer's farm). Yep, very brave indeed! http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm Of course the nice thing about Tiobe is: You can read the statistic any way you like. In case of Java: 1) Java is #1 and 4% ahead of Nr. 2. 2) Java is loosing ground by 2% in one year. Martin PS: Ruby for VMS is quite nice :-). -- Martin Krischik ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 13:53:07 +0200 From: Martin Krischik Subject: Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE)) IDE)) Message-ID: <464307a3$1@news.post.ch> Richard Maher schrieb: >> PS: Ruby for VMS is quite nice :-). > And I assume we also have RoR, or is that still in perennial catchup phase? Don't now - I use Ruby as a DCL extension. It has loops, you know: for i in ARGV do end or for j in Dir.glob("*.adb") end Martin -- Martin Krischik ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 13:22:30 +0000 (UTC) From: Pekka Lylykorpi Subject: Disabling scp and sftp on ssh-server? Message-ID: I have OpenVMS knowledge next to zero but I try to explain our problem with ssh2 on OpenVMS. We have an application on started directly (in LOGIN.COM) when users log in and when users quit that application they will be automatically logged out. They don't see any files on file system level (ftp is not granted). When they use telnet this works fine. But when ssh (Ssh Communications Tectia client) is used instead of telnet people can also use it's integrated file transfer and see and access files on file system level. Is there any mean to limit that access (to disable both sftp and scp)? Facts about environment: OpenVMS V7.3-1 UCX TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Version 5.4-eco 4 HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS V5.4-15L And when telnet into ssh port it tells: SSH-2.0-2.4.1 SSH Secure Shell OpenVMS V1.0 Thanks Pekka Lylykorpi ------------------------------ Date: 10 May 2007 17:01:32 GMT From: Doc Subject: Re: earthquake hits Montana! Message-ID: genius@marblecliff.com wrote in news:1178749734.474556.324630 @n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com: > http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2007/05/09/news/mtregional/news05.txt Newsflash... Earthquakes happen all the time, and their frequency isn't increasing. http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Portal:Disasters_and_accidents/Recent_Earthquak es If this link doesn't have you cowering in your bunker and disconnecting from the Internet I'll introduce you to the Goatse man. Doc. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 09:43:35 -0400 From: "Doug Kimball" Subject: Re: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Message-ID: <13468c8am98fsc7@corp.supernews.com> Thanks for your opinions, lists, and witty repartee. It was very helpful! And the winners are: 1) Blade Runner - it received the most votes! Tied for second (or is that third?): 2.5) Sneakers 2.5) Galaxy Quest If you'd like the chance to win one of these movies or a DVD player to play them on, come to the HP Partners' Roundhouse on Tuesday, May 22 from 6 pm to 9 pm at the Sheraton in Nashua, stop by the Software Partners' table, and drop off your business card. And remember, "I don't know why he saved my life. Maybe in those last moments he loved life more than he ever had before. Not just his life, anybody's life, my life. All he'd wanted were the same answers the rest of us want. Where did I come from? Where am I going? How long have I got? All I could do was sit there and watch him die." "But the key meeting took place July 3rd, 1958, when the Air Force brought the space visitor to the White House for an interview with President Eisenhower. And Ike said, 'Hey look, give us your technology, we'll give you all the cow lips you want.'" "Quellek... by Grabthar's hammer... by the Sons of Warvan... you shall be... avenged." Doug SPI ------------------ "Doug Kimball" wrote in message news:133euv7gd81ki66@corp.supernews.com... > So, what are your top three favorite movies, VMSophiles? We need a promo > for the upcoming HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua, and we would love your > input. Thanks! > > Doug > > -- > Doug Kimball > Manager, Sales and Support > Software Partners, Inc. > www.softwarepartners.com > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 16:49:03 GMT From: colonel@monmouth.com (First there is no Colonel, then there is) Subject: GNV cc -L doesn't work Message-ID: <32I0i.16$kJ1.12@newsfe12.lga> While Achilles is trying to catch up with the Tortoise, I have a question about the GNV wrapper for the C compiler. On our 7.3-2 system the -L command works normally: cc.exe -o myprog.exe myprog.c -L../lib -lmy This finds libmy.olb in ../lib. On our 8.3 system it fails with 'cc: Warning: library "my" not found'. This is what cc --version says: GNV Sep 5 2006 HP C V7.1-015 Has something changed? Any suggestions? The H-P Linker seems to have no counterpart of the -L option, so the wrapper must be doing some serious work. -:- To a Knight the chessboard presents the aspect of a densely wooded forest. --Franklin K. Young, _Minor Tactics of Chess_ -- Col. G. L. Sicherman colonel@mail.monmouth.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 19:21:26 +0200 From: Martin Borgman Subject: Re: GNV cc -L doesn't work Message-ID: <46435496$0$329$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> First there is no Colonel, then there is wrote: > While Achilles is trying to catch up with the Tortoise, I have a > question about the GNV wrapper for the C compiler. > > On our 7.3-2 system the -L command works normally: > > cc.exe -o myprog.exe myprog.c -L../lib -lmy > > This finds libmy.olb in ../lib. > > On our 8.3 system it fails with 'cc: Warning: library "my" not found'. > This is what cc --version says: > > GNV Sep 5 2006 > HP C V7.1-015 > > Has something changed? Any suggestions? The H-P Linker seems to > have no counterpart of the -L option, so the wrapper must be doing > some serious work. > > -:- > To a Knight the chessboard presents the aspect of a > densely wooded forest. > > --Franklin K. Young, _Minor Tactics of Chess_ Franklin, I'm aware of one particular issue with the HP C and C++ compilers. They don't work well with ODS-5 paths. To debug this problem, set GNV_CC_DEBUG to "1". You can find more gcc wrapper options by issuing gcc -h. Regards, -- Martin Borgman, OpenOffice.org On OpenVMS porting group http://www.oooovms.dyndns.org ------------------------------ Date: 10 May 2007 07:59:03 -0700 From: Rich Jordan Subject: Itanic multi-core vs. multi-CPU SMP Message-ID: <1178809143.850294.224120@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> Does VMS on a current itanic box with multicore CPUs treat those cores as equivalent to separate CPUs using the normal SMP support? Not asking about licensing (which is well documented as requiring per-core licenses), but actual VMS operation on such a box. If you have a dual processor dual core itanic and set up hyperthreading, are the 'virtual' CPUs then treated as additional SMP CPUs also? Thanks. I'm just trying to get a feel for VMS specific operations on these newer boxes compared to more traditional multi-CPU units, and so far the docs don't have much to say (which to me implies it really is treated as normal SMP, which is fine). Rich ------------------------------ Date: 10 May 2007 07:37:22 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: PID for detached process. Message-ID: In article , Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: > > By and large those Starlet definitions create Subtypes rather than Types, > and conversion is automatic. > > Personally I would prefer starlet definitions that create new types, > but once the PID is returned PID_TYPE'image ( PID_VALUE ) is not any > harder than UNSIGNED_LONGWORD'image ( PID_VALUE ). Yes, but our Fortran-77 programmers thought all of these were much too much work and only bothered to learn UNCHECKED_CONVERSION. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 15:36:43 +0200 From: Martin Krischik Subject: Re: PID for detached process. Message-ID: <46431fec@news.post.ch> Bob Koehler schrieb: > In article , Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: > >> For something less ugly, use a compiled language to write your own >> version of the RUN command that creats the desired symbol. > > I really think that process names and previous posts with examples > of how to use them to get the PID directly addresses the OP's needs > in a straightforward manner using documented interfaces. > > While it would be possible to do the same by writing a program, I'm > left wondering how many UNCHECKED_CONVERSIONs it would take to do > it in Ada? (The last time I wored with VMS routines form Ada every > routine seemed to have its own type for a 32 bit integer. 8-) ) None as one should use checked conversion to convert Integer types: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Ada_Programming/Type_System#Explicit_type_conversion Martin -- Martin Krischik ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 16:16:11 +0200 From: Martin Krischik Subject: Re: PID for detached process. Message-ID: <4643292c$1@news.post.ch> Bob Koehler schrieb: > In article , Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: >> By and large those Starlet definitions create Subtypes rather than Types, >> and conversion is automatic. >> >> Personally I would prefer starlet definitions that create new types, >> but once the PID is returned PID_TYPE'image ( PID_VALUE ) is not any >> harder than UNSIGNED_LONGWORD'image ( PID_VALUE ). > > Yes, but our Fortran-77 programmers thought all of these were much > too much work and only bothered to learn UNCHECKED_CONVERSION. And they did not run into trouble? After all Ada.Unchecked_Conversion (Note: all upper case has been given up in Ada long ago) makes a bit copy of the data which can have all sorts of interesting effects - especially when the source and destination are of different size. Martin -- Martin Krischik ------------------------------ Date: 10 May 2007 11:18:21 -0500 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: PID for detached process. Message-ID: In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > In article , Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: >> >> By and large those Starlet definitions create Subtypes rather than Types, >> and conversion is automatic. >> >> Personally I would prefer starlet definitions that create new types, >> but once the PID is returned PID_TYPE'image ( PID_VALUE ) is not any >> harder than UNSIGNED_LONGWORD'image ( PID_VALUE ). > > Yes, but our Fortran-77 programmers thought all of these were much > too much work and only bothered to learn UNCHECKED_CONVERSION. One can write a Fortran program in any language. ------------------------------ Date: 10 May 2007 12:18:43 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: PID for detached process. Message-ID: In article <4643292c$1@news.post.ch>, Martin Krischik writes: > > And they did not run into trouble? After all Ada.Unchecked_Conversion > (Note: all upper case has been given up in Ada long ago) makes a bit > copy of the data which can have all sorts of interesting effects - > especially when the source and destination are of different size. The source and destination were all longwords. I know Ada is not case sensitive, but the programming standards they used had all Ada keywords in uppercase. ------------------------------ Date: 10 May 2007 12:40:47 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: PID for detached process. Message-ID: In article , Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: > Personally I would prefer starlet definitions that create new types, > but once the PID is returned PID_TYPE'image ( PID_VALUE ) is not any > harder than UNSIGNED_LONGWORD'image ( PID_VALUE ). Unfortunately, using PID_TYPE'image(PID_VALUE) as the value in the parameter to $ STOP /ID=xxx won't work for PID's higher than 00000009 STOP /ID expects hexadecimal text. 'image (to the extent that it provides a well-defined value at all -- I don't know chapter and verse about the 'image that results when the programmer applies it willy nilly to an opaque type) produces decimal text. Fortunately, I think you're free to declare your own type for the cells at the memory address that you pass in the pidadr parameter to $CREPRC. So you're not dependent on digging through Starlet to figure out how it is declared. It's been way too long since I wrote Ada and I don't recall whether there are any hex output facilities defined. Possibly one would want to use $FAO and LIB$SET_SYMBOL and point PIDADR right into the memory block that is eventually passed to $FAO. No UNCHECKED_CONVERSION required. Just a 'Address reference or two. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 11:45:03 +0200 From: Martin Krischik Subject: Remote IDE (Was: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris I Message-ID: <4642e99f$1@news.post.ch> Richard Maher schrieb: > Hi Neil, > >> Then we are in agreement because I think OpenVMS is the superior OS as > well. > > Without question! > >> I do code development every day with EDT but need to point out that a >> younger developer in our group copies source code to Windows, edits, then >> copies back because "no one wants to learn EDT after they have first been >> exposed to a GUI based editor". So in this light if we don't attract > younger >> developers with GUI based tools, then the future of OpenVMS is doomed. > > There's a guy I know in London that still keeps copying stuff to LSE on VMS > 'cos he can't bring himself to use (vi?) on Unix. Well bog standard vi is a pain indeed - and even I would prefer LSEdit over a bog standart vi. BTE: I use GVim which a lot more modern vi incarnation. On VMS you can choose between a Motif or Gtk+ GUI :-). > Personally, I think it > would be great if "young" developers used a PC or Unix-based IDE and then > deployed on VMS! Digital doesn't have to waste time and effort trying to > develop a genre of software that they're demonstrably no good at, and VMS > get's to host the final product (or at least some part of it). I call that a > win-win situation. Here in our shop we are currently evaluating the GNAT Programming Studio [1][2] for exactly this kind of setup. Sadly not all the remote development functionality works for VMS as some function relay bash and working secure shell setup. Interesting: GPS is GPL licensed open source - you pay only for support - so it is an option for hobby programmers. Martin [1] http://www.adacore.com/home/gnatpro/toolsuite/gps [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNAT_Programming_Studio -- Martin Krischik ------------------------------ Date: 10 May 2007 01:17:58 -0700 From: Uli Bellgardt Subject: Samba 2.2.8 vs CIFS Evaluation Release 3 Message-ID: <1178785078.528552.282340@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> Hi, using Samba V2.2.8 on OpenVMS 8.2 with TCP/IP V5.5 - ECO 1, on one DS20 we see following error messages in the Logs, whenever a Windows 2000 client tries to connect: (edited to avoid long lines) [2007/05/10 08:45:54, 0] SYS$SYSDEVICE:[UTILITIES.SAMBA-2_2_8- SRC.SOURCE.LIB]UTIL_SOCK.C;7:(1032) getpeername failed. Error was socket is not connected [2007/05/10 08:45:55, 0] SYS$SYSDEVICE:[UTILITIES.SAMBA-2_2_8- SRC.SOURCE.LIB]ACCESS.C;2:(331) [2007/05/10 08:45:55, 0] SYS$SYSDEVICE:[UTILITIES.SAMBA-2_2_8- SRC.SOURCE.LIB]UTIL_SOCK.C;7:(1032) getpeername failed. Error was socket is not connected Denied connection from (0.0.0.0) [2007/05/10 08:45:55, 0] SYS$SYSDEVICE:[UTILITIES.SAMBA-2_2_8- SRC.SOURCE.LIB]UTIL_SOCK.C;7:(515) write_socket_data: write failure. Error = broken pipe [2007/05/10 08:45:55, 0] SYS$SYSDEVICE:[UTILITIES.SAMBA-2_2_8- SRC.SOURCE.LIB]UTIL_SOCK.C;7:(539) write_socket: Error writing 5 bytes to socket 3: ERRNO = broken pipe [2007/05/10 08:45:55, 0] SYS$SYSDEVICE:[UTILITIES.SAMBA- 2_2_8-SRC.SOURCE.LIB]UTIL_SOCK.C;7:(719) Error writing 5 bytes to client. -1. (broken pipe) This sequence is repeated a (not clearly defined) number of times, until finally the Windows 2000 client is connected and sees she shares as defined. Sometimes this sequence is long so that the client gets timed-out and will see the connection not before attempting some more times. Once the connection is up, it appears to be stable for the rest of the day. I have googled for this error message from SMBD, it seems that I am not alone with it, but I could not see any published solution for this. (On an older box, with VMS 7.3-2 and TCP/IP 5.4 ECO 2 the same Samba runs flawlessly) Since this error is not only noise in the log files, I downloaded the Evaluation release 3 of CIFS from the HP site, and installed it. With this version running, SMBD can see only those directories that have a file protection including W:R. The corresponding error messages are: [2007/05/09 09:13:00, 0] SAMBA$SRC:[SOURCE.LIB]UTIL_SEC.C;1:(93) Failed to set uid privileges to (-1,4194305) now set to (8388737,8388737) [2007/05/09 09:13:00, 0] SAMBA$SRC:[SOURCE.LIB]UTIL.C;1:(1483) PANIC: failed to set uid A look into util_sec.c shows that this behaviour is no surprise - it contains plenty of UNIXisms but no VMS specific code, as it is in the corresponding file of Samba 2.2.8. My first attempt to fix this simple revealed that the src tree has some more issues, so I stopped that. I have read before that some persons have this CIFS evaluation release running - but how? Am I missing something obvious? Can someone give me hint what I can try next in order to make any one of the two SAMBAs running smoothly? Thanks, -Uli Bellgardt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 06:31:50 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: SET CONF SMTP/QUEUES Message-ID: In article , JF Mezei writes: > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > > Why? Why not have every machine be able to send email itself? > > Because you then have multiple log files, you then have multiple > configuration files etc. (ok, you still need multiple config files, one > for each workstation so that SMTP% will work, but it is less critical). The mostly static configuration files can be multiple; setting them up is basically a one-time thing. Common stuff can be common, i.e. one can define TCPIP$SMTP_COMMON to be a search list including a common directory. > > Is there any way to see the current limit? (TCPIP SHOW SERVICE doesn't > > seem to be able to show it.) > > TCPIP SHOW SERVICE SMTP/FULL , you will see the service limit on the left. > > The reason I set mine to a low value (2) is that I had noticed that spam > came in waves. Having a low limit means that only the first 2 attempts > at delivering an add for toe growing magic pills get connected, the rest > just bounce right off even before the system can decide the come from a > blacklisted IP. That's the big question: HOW does it bounce right off? Obviously, I don't want legitimate email to bounce right off, and even if there is an error message saying what the problem is, I would rather it got delivered right away. > In terms of your VAXC error number, I would suspect some TCPIP stack > config limit or perhaps the DNS server limit. Is your dns server local > on VMS or something provided by your ISP ? DNS is external. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 02:38:27 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: SET CONF SMTP/QUEUES Message-ID: Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > That's the big question: HOW does it bounce right off? Obviously, I If you TCPIP> SET SERVICE SMTP/LIMIT=2 then, when the 3rd call comes in, it is immediatly terminated. (as if the system were down). A legitimate SMTP sender will retry in 15 minutes or more. ------------------------------ Date: 10 May 2007 07:33:02 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Message-ID: In article <5aduevF2o7hpdU1@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > I realize that, but the question was raised here and I am fairly > certain the concern was about the effects of eliminating what may > still be a significant number of VMS systems. Yeah, I know, when people say VAX they often mean VMS, but they are not the same and I think this is an appropriate place not to let them get away with it. Meanwhile, I've never seen VAX as a partcularly good platform for UNIX since RISC architectures came out. If I'm going to put up with the antique human interface, I might as well get a more powerfull CPU. When RISC came out we kept buying VAX soley because of VMS. When we got our first Alpha we added more CPU power to our VMS systems than the whole cluster already had. ------------------------------ Date: 10 May 2007 11:48:02 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Message-ID: In article <5agkqoF2ncdnoU1@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > Also true, but again, why are people still running VAX VMS today? Need > I point out that it is only about a year since I shut down our VAX here > which was in use everyday. Or do people here not consider education to > be production use? (Education is our product!!) We use it because of custom hardware interfaces that would cost millions of dollars to port to an Alpha based platform. We have a few UNIX systems with less demanding but still custom interfaces and wouldn't be likely to change the hardware they're on, either. > The same logic can be applied to VAX Unix in whatever flavor it comes. I saw support from DEC for things like DRV11-W in Ultrix on a VAX, but I never knew anyone who actually used one. ------------------------------ Date: 10 May 2007 03:23:10 -0700 From: Ian Miller Subject: Re: VMS Upgrade via ESS$INFOSERVER? Message-ID: <1178792590.666428.5670@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> See the upgrade manual App C http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/83final/ba322_90045/apc.html MOP has to be setup for booting an alpha server, TFTP has to be setup for booting a I64 system. By default the infoserver hardware automatically did various setup operations when you loaded a CD. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 13:03:55 +0200 From: Martin Krischik Subject: XFS Message-ID: <4642fc1b$1@news.post.ch> I use XFS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XFS mainly because the native backup tool really works (that is: I was able to recover lost data) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XFS#Native_backup.2Frestore_utilities But for the external drive and /boot (booting from XFS is now possible but wasn't when I installed) I used bog standard ext3. I can send you my backup restore script which is suitable for cron job daily backup of both XFS and ext3. The reason I don't use ReitherFS any more is the missing backup tool. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReiserFS Martin -- Martin Krischik ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 13:16:23 +0200 From: Martin Krischik Subject: Re: XFS Message-ID: <4642ff07$1@news.post.ch> Ups - wrong receiver! -- Martin Krischik ------------------------------ Date: 10 May 2007 08:33:27 -0500 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) Subject: Xyratex F5402E on OpenVMS??? Message-ID: <4L5iQtBBGU3$@eisner.encompasserve.org> Does any one know of a Xyratex F5402E FibreChannel RAID array being used on OpenVMS Alpha? -- Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org Sir, if I was building a weapon of mass destruction, you wouldn't be able to find it. ------------------------------ Date: 10 May 2007 12:08:39 +0200 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) Subject: [OpenVMS V8.3] VMS Upgrade via ESS$INFOSERVER? Message-ID: <46430b47@news.langstoeger.at> Has anyone done alread a VMS upgrade via the Infoserver contained in VMS V8? I might try it in the future, if a CD drive is not available in my system and my real InfoServer is dead... The VMS installation documentation mentions booting a APB_version, then selecting the right infoserver service, and then continue booting VMS = client from the infoserver service (which indeed a VMS V8 system can offer = server). I suspect the first boot of APB* is via MOP (and nod LAST) and so I think there is more in VMS (server) to do than to offer a ALPHA083 service. Right? How does the real InfoServer do it? I remember (vaguely) inserting the (ALPHA073 then) CD in it and then I was already able to boot my VMS box. So the InfoServer does something with MOP automagically. Is this correct or does my memory fade? TIA -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail peter@langstoeger.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.256 ************************